Newbie reloading questions...

[thegreydecay]

After paying a significant premium at the local range to try out my newly acquired Marlin in 45LC, my interest in reloading was obviously raised. There's a ton of info on the web and I've been sifting through what I can on the subject and thought I'd get some input from the educated masses here.

I've seen multiple recommendations that strongly suggest starting with a single stage, or non-progressive press, suggesting that this will somehow lead to some sort of deeper understanding of the reload process and thereby lead to safer, less incident-prone reloading. I'm not sure I understand why this may be the case.

Can someone please share their experiences with getting started with reloading that would give this some validity? I suspect that as a beginner, one would/should be cautious in nature and would pay the requisite attention regardless of which type of press was used. Aside from not paying attention to detail, can someone explain to me why starting with a single stage press would be safer than starting with a progressive? I don't quite see how using a single stage would give me any more insight into what makes a safer load than doing the same thing with a progressive press?

Thanks for any and all input. Having never reloaded, I look forward to your insights. In my head, I'm already getting either the dillon 650xl or the hornady lock n load ap. I'll look elsewhere to make the determination between the two, unless there's an overwhelming response here that convinces me that that a single stage is the better option to start with.

Thanks for the help!
TGD

[The Machine]

I have yet to use a progressive press, so I won't comment on them.

In terms of single stage presses, everything seems to be a bit more tedious. I guess in theory, that forces you to be safer. For example, I carefully measure each powder charge for each case, one at a time. My rounds wind up being very consistent and there are no surprises. I also measure the COL and OAL individually as well, though I don't see why you couldn't do that with a progressive press.

[lpspinner]

Well, the thing with a single stage is exactly that...singularity. By doing this, you learn each step as you move along without distraction. You are focused on only one tasks. Your single stage press has only one case and you are concentrating on that one case.

With a progressive press, you have to multitask. In front of you are 4-7 (depends on model of press) cases in various stages of assembly. So with one hand you have to insert a new case, the other hand inserts a bullet on top of a case that should have the required amount of powder.

So now, you have to think...is the primer inserted, did I charge the case only once, insert a bullet into the case with powder, seat the bullet, crimp the round, etc....

You have a lot of steps that are going on and if you are distracted...it's not hard to double charge a case or forget to charge a case.

Besides, you'll find that there are times you'll need a single with your progressive and since it's relatively inexpensive...it doesn't hurt to buy one, learn the basics, then add a progressive press.

[johnny1290]

I bought a progressive as my first press under a year ago.

Honestly, it wasn't easy to figure out.

Instead of focusing on only 1 function, you have to trouble shoot 3 or more of them. It took months to get over 50 rph and I thought maybe I'd bitten off more than I could chew.

Then, it all just clicked, and now it's a breeze to knock out 300+rph. It's just fun!

I'm sure with a single stage you're less likely to press in a bullet to a case without powder, or without a primer, or something like that( I guess).

I just didn't know what I was doing, what I should and shouldn't do, how to properly set the damn Lee powder chain*broke it many times), just all the stuff you learn either by being shown or hard experience.

My Lee pro 1000 works fine, basically I caused the problems(trying to prime a shell that isn't reloadable, for instance, or not looking in each before seating the bullet to make sure the charge is correct, or contaminating my primers or something.

If you can get someone to help you set it up and show you how to make a few rounds, you'll be much farther ahead of the game than I was, anyhow.

[M27]

I wouldn't say that a single stage is safer but it is less complex.

Im not saying that you won't be able to figure out how to set up a hornady lock and load but it is easier to set up when you aren't also trying to learn how to reload.

my recommendation, get the Hornady LNL as well as an RCBS Rock Crusher it isn't that much for a rock crusher and you will have both.

Edit: while the rock crusher is one of the best single stage presses out there, because you would be getting 1 hornady press with the lock bushings might as well get the hornady single stage too, it would make for really easy changing of dies.

[ironpete]

To reload there is a list of things that need to occur:
1) Case cleaning
2) Case decapping
3) Case sizing
4) Case trimming
5) Case mouth expanding/belling
etc...

On a single stage press you use one die at a time. Each die may have several functions like (sizing & decapping & expanding). For the cost of $70 you can get a single stage press and practice each step in the process. Many people have both a single stage (or several ones) in addition to their progressive. It doesn't cost much as a learning tool. There are even "pocket" kits like the Lee Loaders that can show you all the steps for about $30.

If you're not familiar with the process and don't understand what you're doing try using 4 multi-use dies all at once. Juggling 20 variables on unfamiliar equipment while handling explosives...not necessarily the best idea.

That isn't to say that those many variables are bad. It is precisely those variables that you tweak to get the best ammo. Realistically the difference between a progressive and single stage is speed but that speed comes at the cost of added complexity.

Take a quick reloading class and read a good reloading manual (I recommend the Lyman). Frankly, if you don't see the possible complexity then either you don't need to be asking for help or you definitely need to be asking for help.

If you're technically minded, mechanically inclined, OCD and have no fear of screwing up with explosives I'd say go for it. I almost did but OCD kicked in and I got a hand press, then a single stage. I've used several different progressives and am now ready to fill in my wish list for my "ammo factory" progressive.

-Peter

[K7addict]

I literally joined the reloading party this week. I received my Lee Classic Turret Press with all the necessary components to load .233/5.56 as that is what I shoot the most. I only payed $234 shipped for all the hard components minus a scale.

I was initially looking very hard at the Lee & Hornady LnL Progressives, mostly because I figured, "Hey, I have plenty of common sense, won't rush the process & am mechanically inclined". However, after researching many forums, watching plenty of Youtube videos of progressives and other presses, I realized that there can be a lot going on which can lead to mistakes as well as there are situations when you may need a single stage press anyways.

I decided to purchase the turret press because I can use it as a single stage for some processes and I can run through all processes very quickly when I become more proficient. You won't have to swap out the dies like a single stage but you only have to focus on one round at a time. A great in between for a beginner, in my humble opinion.

And I've learned really quickly how many processes are involved with reloading just in the past two days. I've deprimed/resized my .223 cases using the turret press as single stage and now I'm able to trim/deburr/brush primer pockets before going back and progressively priming, charge, seat bullet & crimp each round in quick succession. The best of both worlds and probably a tad quicker than a single stage.

[XDRoX]

IMO learning on a SS will deepen your knowledge of each of the individual aspects of reloading. You will learn the same things from loading on a progressive it will just take longer.

Experience comes in time. A SS takes a whole lot longer to load on, therefore the guy that has reloaded 1000 rounds on a SS will have a lot more experience than the guy that has loaded 1000 rounds on a progressive.

Do you need to learn to crawl before you walk, of course not. Get up and run if you want to, it's your life.

Here's the best advice I could give on the subject. If you plan on reloading a number of different calibers, you're going to need a single stage on the bench eventually anyway, so why not just start with it? It's cheaper and you can see if you like reloading.

[glug]

I literally joined the reloading party this week. I received my Lee Classic Turret Press... The best of both worlds and probably a tad quicker than a single stage.

I agree, I still don't understand why more people don't promote a turret press for beginners (other than the fact that it costs a bit more than single stage, but still not as much as a progressive).

Seems to me it's easier and safer because you are still doing one thing at a time, can do each round start to finish (which I find more fun/satisfying), and you don't constantly have 50 half-finished rounds sitting around in a loading block waiting to get spilled/mixed up/sneezed in or what have you. If for whatever reason you got interrupted in the middle you wouldn't have nearly as much cleanup to deal with. Plus, a turret can still be used as a single stage by turning off the auto-indexing.

The only advantage I see to a single stage is that it does make it easier to do QC because you can look at a whole block of cartridges together and check for consistency (powder charge, primer seating, bullet depth, etc...). But if you are meticulous about double checking your work on a turret I would think it's just as safe.

But I'm still new to the whole reloading thing too so maybe I am missing something...

[drkphibr]

I agree, I still don't understand why more people don't promote a turret press for beginners (other than the fact that it costs a bit more than single stage, but still not as much as a progressive).

Seems to me it's easier and safer because you are still doing one thing at a time, can do each round start to finish (which I find more fun/satisfying), and you don't constantly have 50 half-finished rounds sitting around in a loading block waiting to get spilled/mixed up/sneezed in or what have you. If for whatever reason you got interrupted in the middle you wouldn't have nearly as much cleanup to deal with. Plus, a turret can still be used as a single stage by turning off the auto-indexing.

The only advantage I see to a single stage is that it does make it easier to do QC because you can look at a whole block of cartridges together and check for consistency (powder charge, primer seating, bullet depth, etc...). But if you are meticulous about double checking your work on a turret I would think it's just as safe.

But I'm still new to the whole reloading thing too so maybe I am missing something...

+1^

I think the LCT is way under rated. I think it's a great starting point for beginners for the following reasons:

Inexpensive -add up all your costs to start and a progressive is quite expensive, especially when you factor in additional calibers
Simple - it's a single stage (without indexing) or indexed to speed things up. Not quite progressive, but a great trade off
Well built - this thing is a tank
Fast caliber changes - rotate the turret out and a new one in. Seconds.

[Bill Steele]

After paying a significant premium at the local range to try out my newly acquired Marlin in 45LC, my interest in reloading was obviously raised. There's a ton of info on the web and I've been sifting through what I can on the subject and thought I'd get some input from the educated masses here.

I've seen multiple recommendations that strongly suggest starting with a single stage, or non-progressive press, suggesting that this will somehow lead to some sort of deeper understanding of the reload process and thereby lead to safer, less incident-prone reloading. I'm not sure I understand why this may be the case.

Can someone please share their experiences with getting started with reloading that would give this some validity? I suspect that as a beginner, one would/should be cautious in nature and would pay the requisite attention regardless of which type of press was used. Aside from not paying attention to detail, can someone explain to me why starting with a single stage press would be safer than starting with a progressive? I don't quite see how using a single stage would give me any more insight into what makes a safer load than doing the same thing with a progressive press?

Thanks for any and all input. Having never reloaded, I look forward to your insights. In my head, I'm already getting either the dillon 650xl or the hornady lock n load ap. I'll look elsewhere to make the determination between the two, unless there's an overwhelming response here that convinces me that that a single stage is the better option to start with.

Thanks for the help!
TGD

It all depends on you.

If you have above average mechanical skills, are detail oriented, intelligent, patient, a grown-up etc., starting on a progressive is not a terrible choice. The only risk factor is how accurate your self appraisal.

As many have said before, if you really get into reloading having a single stage press is always handy. When learning on a single stage, if you do miss something, you will have fewer mistakes to take apart.

In any case, as most of this stuff is in demand used (not as much as a 9mm 1911, but definitely in demand), you are not risking a great deal of money either way.

[ironpete]

I agree, I still don't understand why more people don't promote a turret press for beginners (other than the fact that it costs a bit more than single stage, but still not as much as a progressive).

I don't own a turret press so I'm just spitballing ideas as to why they aren't more popular.

1) O-body single stages are more rigid and therefore have maximum consistency. That is why single stages are recommended for making match ammo.
2) Using die lock rings (or the quick change bushings) swapping dies takes all of about 3 seconds negating the convenience of a turret.
3) Extra Equipment is press specific. Would you rather invest money in RCBS die plates ($60) or more dies. Keep in mind that those extra die plates are only usable in that press where more dies will work in almost every press. This is why you don't see many recommendations for the Dillon 550 and people jump straight to the 650.
4) Production speed is not really enhanced over a single stage with #2. Not at least the way I use it. I do one step with each batch. Resize&bell 100 cases, prime 100 cases, etc. I guess if you did it one round at a time it would save you some time (changing dies) but if you go in steps like I do then that die change (say 10 seconds) averages out over the 100 cases.

I'd like a turret press but don't see the need. Now I am saving towards a progressive with all the trimmings. In the future I might buy a turret (if I could get it cheap) so that I have a dedicated trimming and decapping machine and use my RCBS to do the sizing and seating.

-Peter

[thegreydecay]

Thanks to all for the invaluable advice! I'm gonna let my ego go sit in a corner for a while and pick up a single stage for now. Can anyone recommend a reloading class in the LA area?

Thanks again.

[lpspinner]

Experience comes in time.

Do you need to learn to crawl before you walk, of course not. Get up and run if you want to, it's your life.

I think the problem is deeper. We live in a society or at least if we want to keep our "man card"...we don't need to read directions. Or as my 4 year old says, "I want it RIGHT NOW!"

In our society of if less is good, then more must be better.

Why crawl, when I can just sprint? forget about crawling and walking.

No matter how far up the process you start at...you will learn shortcuts....so instead of taking shortcuts from the shortcut.....take the time to learn it right and then develop your own shortcuts.


Yes the LCT can be used as a SS, but let me ask you....If I gave you a sports car to drive to market....are you just going to go 25mph?

There is nothing wrong with buying a SS and starting out....these things hang on to their value....and if the ammo situation doesn't get better, these press...no matter how small....will be in demand.

If I were to suddenly loose my Dillons, I would have no problems cranking out 200-300 rounds per hour on my 15 year old Lee SS.

So, what's wrong with learning to crawl before you walk, learning to walk before you learn to run?

[Fjold]

I use turrets or progressive presses for all my reloading. A single stage is more accurate only if the ram and die alignment is perfect. A lot of benchrest shooters are starting to load ammunition on single stage presses with rubber O rings under their dies to let the cases self-align during the process.