Can a Low powered 44 load sound the same as a high powered one?

[stilly]

So I made some 44 mag with AAC#7 and some Hornady JHP XTP bullets.

I saw in the Book of Lee that I can shoot lead 240gr bullets and I can shoot 240gr Copper Plated with AAC#7 I was surprised to see that they were listed but then again, #7 was the powder that I had wanted in the first place but it was not available so I bought blue dot and H110...

Is it possible that by using AAC#7 that I can make a thunderous sounding load near the max level even with a copper plated 240gr hp?

Now that I got my chrony in I am thinking that I need to take it to the indoor range tomorrow and test it out on the 44 loads I made.

Anyone have any experience with the Rainier 240gr Plated bullets in a 44mag?

[CGT80]

Plated bullets can only be run to the middle of jacketed data. If you push them too fast, the plating will separate from the core. Lead gas checked bullets can be pushed harder than plated. Molly coated bullets could be pushed harder as well, but will eventually build up a fair amount of lead, at least in a comped gun.

h-110/win296 will give you the most power, speed, noise, and recoil. By AAC#7 do you mean Accurate Arms #7? It looks like AA#7 will get you to 1200 fps with a 250 grain jacketed bullet and h-110 will get you to 1522 fps with a 240 grain jacketed bullet. The AA#7 load should be stout and loud, but not as much as the h-110 load.

I load for the 460 S&W. I don't push the rainiers bullets past 1000 fps. They work well for light loads.

First you said you made loads with #7, but then you said they didn't have any available so you bought blue dot. Does this mean you previously tried #7, but now you are out of it and need to substitute a different powder?

What are the goals for your load?

If I want to show off with my 460, I run a Hornady bullet and h-110/win296. For light 460 loads I run Trail Boss powder, it will make very light loads in 44 mag as well. For 45LC loads I run Win 231/HP-38....This makes a nice light to medium load and I have used it for 44 mag as well. For my 460 I am also going to try AA 5744 to get 1000-1800 fps with a hornady bullet. 5744 will do medium and heavy loads. H-110 only does full power loads.

[Bill Steele]

So I made some 44 mag with AAC#7 and some Hornady JHP XTP bullets.

I saw in the Book of Lee that I can shoot lead 240gr bullets and I can shoot 240gr Copper Plated with AAC#7 I was surprised to see that they were listed but then again, #7 was the powder that I had wanted in the first place but it was not available so I bought blue dot and H110...

Is it possible that by using AAC#7 that I can make a thunderous sounding load near the max level even with a copper plated 240gr hp?

Now that I got my chrony in I am thinking that I need to take it to the indoor range tomorrow and test it out on the 44 loads I made.

Anyone have any experience with the Rainier 240gr Plated bullets in a 44mag?

I have not shot Rainier, but I was wondering if they had the same velocity restrictions as Berry's, so I went on their web site. It said to load their bullets with lead bullet data and to keep velocities under 1250fps maximum.

[Bill Steele]

Just because a load in a book says a plated bulleted loaded to a given spec CAN go 1400fps, doesn't mean all plated bullets in the world loaded to that spec can be pushed to 1400fps and stay together.

When you are faced with discrepencies between load data, bullet types, etc., some common sense is warranted.

If you see a load and it is for plated and it says 1400fps, but the manufacturer of the plated bullet you want to use says keep velocities below 1250fps, then common sense says to not use that load for that manufacturer's bullet.

For sure, always use the manufacturer's data when loading. For instance, when you see a load that looks kind of what you what to do and it calls for 14.7grs of a given powder, but the powder manufacturer of that powder says 13.7grs is max, then definitely use the powder manufacturers data. The discrepency you are dealing with is likely due to a misunderstanding on your part about the applicability of the 14.7gr load to your situation.

Make sense?

[Bill Steele]

Yes it does and No I do not know.

Yes I understand that most plated bullets should not really go past 1200 (the given speed as told to me by the guy that got me into reloading) but there are exceptions and you need to look for things if you want to go a bit faster. Being that I worked for the Govt for the past 10 years I just chalk that up to another exception to the rules. We had a lot of them working for the govt ina small corrupted city. The council is always an exception to the rules it seems... So I just figured that maybe The folks at Lee know something that I don't. The Book of Lee preaches that they (Lee Disciples) are safe and reasonable and they only put out good data so naturally when I see their load data I think it is all infallible. (sp) I see the Book of Lyman and it is a bit more conservative. The Book of Lyman shot things out of 4" barrels where as the Book of Lee shot things out of calibrated machines and devices to obtain proper readings with copper pistons and so forth. I can not aford to follow two religions so I started with the Book of Lee and I became a Lee practitioner since they were my first and I had their press and what they said made sense. Of course according to the Book of Lee I should be using plastic dippers because plastic dippers are a more precise way of measuring powder and not this powder pro. in fact according to the Book of Lee I should probably be reloading right there at the range and I should not own a Turret press. I find myself constantly wondering if I should get a dipper set and maybe I should remove this powder dispenser and get a funnel setup and weigh each shot. THAT is the only way to be correct in what I do right? So I have all of this crap now and I want to make it work but yes I agree, 1500 is a bit above the norm for previous readings that I have seen with the Copper plated bullets. That is why I sent them an e-mail today. They did not reply as of yet.

BTW, my 44 mag loads WERE all over the place. how is that possible if I did pretty much the exact same thing? Now I need to smack that powder pro measure around a bit and make certain that it is dispensing proper charges. I do not think that my chrony can be off by THAT much. It had such high reviews in the Midway and Amazon and on AR-15.com...

Frankly, I hope you are pulling my leg, in any case, I don't think I can be of any further help.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I really think you should reconsider your idea of taking up reloading. You can get really hot ammo for that Deagle at fairly reasonable prices from companies like Buffalo Bore and Underwood. In the long run, I think you will end up saving a lot of money going that route.

Whatever you decide, best of luck.

[stilly]

Sorry Bill. Sometimes I am a bit sarcastic in my responses. I keep forgetting that although I have been shooting since the age of about 16 that I am still a newcomer here and people are not used to my saracsm (yet). I am sure that I have turned off a few folks and for that I apologize. The whole contradictary information just does not sit well with me. This is the 21st century and I see no reason why these folks can't shoot e-mails back and forth and come to an agreement on what loads are good for what rounds. I have not had to send an e-mail off to a company about their literature on making something for quite some time now. Hmmm, nope, never really but I think there may be a few more to be sent before I have learned a few things.

I have heard about 2+ people now state that the Book of Lyman is better than the Book of Lee and that kind of saddens me because I learned on the Book of Lee. I am converting though because I find the Book of Lyman to be a bit more straight forward even if they do not have as many load recipes. I think that I have pretty much found that I do not need to books to obtain recipes but then I had really watch myself and like you said before, I think I am kind of getting to know a powder charge or two now. I know that Blue Dot sucks for 240gr Rainiers. It would be nice to find a powder that maximizes itself out at 1000 fps so that I get a five foot fireball and the richter scale moves with only an 11 gr max load @1142 FPS with 240gr rainiers. THAT would be my ideal load. I can shoot cheaply then. I would not have to spend $500+ on Bullet dies and swage my 44 mag bullets anymore.

I might have exagerated a bit with the load data, I wrote it down on paper and most of the loads were great but there were a few zingers. The Chrony could have been wrong too. I have not shot outside yet. The best part is that the shells flying against the back wall and three went into the bowl for misfires. LoL. If you had a raised brow at a part of my post please ask and I will be serious when I explain it.

I may have misread your question. Yes you can shoot the copper plated stuff faster but there are consequences like copper skidmarks left in the barrel since they will start to fall apart. But if I had a gas checked Lead bullet then the gas is kept behind the bullet and not allowed to go all over it and melt it on the way out. So then a gas check would be better but then again, so would a jacketed bullet.

BTW, you have been a great help in contributing information. I appreciate the time you have spent replying to some of my crazy posts.

[stilly]

Per Lee:

04-25-12

Steve,
Modern Reloading, by Richard LEE, provides you with 2 cartridge over all
lengths. The length provided on the sketch is maximum length. A
minimum length is also provided, which is relative to the powder being
used and the bullet being used.
Any COAL between those two dimensions can be used. Make sure the length
you decide to use will allow the cartridge to chamber easily, before you
assemble 100s of them. 1.575" is the minimum length.
Bill Tech Service LEE Precision 4275 HWY "U" Hartford, WI. 53027

I did not recall seeing that in the book. I must have either glossed over it or just not gotten there yet. So then there is a range of length that should be adhered to for this to work. SO then if I really want to I can load all of my 44 mag loads at 1.610 (shown in the diagram) and by doing so all that would happen is that SOME charges would have a lower pressure? With that said can I put gas checks onto the rainiers and make them go faster or will that not work? Also, per Lee how would I load a 355gr 44 mag bullet if the min col is 1.7xx ? I guess it can not be shorter then the min. length mentioned in the book.

Have I read things correctly?

BTW, My last group of 44 mag (9 shots recorder) are as follows:

1754 781 1328 992 1344 1256 1481 1452 1151 In that order. I did not chrono all of them since it was a PITA and I did not like stepping back about 3 feet from the chrono and I am not certain how accurate these readings are since I was using a foreign light directly over the sensors. I think maybe outside might give me better results unless I can get a brighter light inside.

[CGT80]

First of all I am not religious, so I will not base my life off a book, especially one book in particular. I don't do the same with reloading either. I have 50-100 books with load data in them. Some are probably from the 50's or 60's and the newest is probably ten years old. Data from books, and people will vary. Products as far as powder and primers could vary from lot to lot. To me, life and reloading are about learning from others successes and mistakes and your own.

Lately I have been referring to http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp quite often and I also use the PDF from accurate arms: http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-con...d_data_3.5.pdf

I will check that data against my books and then error on the low side for powder amounts.

I have never heard of putting a gas check on a copper plated bullet or moly coating a copper plated bullet. Plated bullets are of limited use. A lead bullet doesn't have a plating to deform and become a problem. I don't suggest hot rodding a plated bullet.

A gas checked lead bullet may work for a Desert Eagle. You can usually push a gas checked lead bullet faster than a plated bullet, but there is still a limit. I haven't had any experience with checked bullets. Jacketed bullets will withstand the most speed. When I want to run a very fast load or I want very consistent performance, I run jacketed. My competition gun is most consistent with jacketed 9mm ammo that I have loaded. Moly coated lead bullets were more inconsistent in size, shape, and accuracy.

That big fire ball, loud report, and huge muzzle blast are usually from slower powders. The slower powders seem to give more speed and energy than the fast powders. Here is a chart I found on burn rates http://www.reloadbench.com/burn.html

If your going to be a show off with your gun, be a man and shoot the hot loads like h-110 with a suitable jacketed bullet0. Personally I don't think you will get a load with less recoil to show off as well. I don't think you can have your cake and eat it too, in this case (someone else might know more than I do about it though). You could run a medium load that still sounds cool and doesn't kick so bad, but it wont be quite as impressive as a hot load. Rainier plated bullets would be ok for a medium load. A cowboy or light target load will sound weak, but is very easy and fun to shoot, and can also be quite accurate. plated, moly, and cast bullets are all good for light loads. Jacketed also works, but isn't necessary speed wise. For ease of reloading and consistency, jacketed can be beneficial.

Your chronograph needs a good light source to give accurate readings. It can also be affected by muzzle blast. I chronoed my 460 outdoors in sunlight. I stand 10-15' back from it. The last time I used it I saw a few crazy numbers-like 1000 fps off. The sun was at an angle to the chrono as it was starting to set. I also couldn't get my hot loads to chrono. 45 grains of h-110 gave me 19xx fps, but the load of 47 grains would not register. I think the angle of the sun along with the muzzle blast was causing problems. Try it outside with the sun overhead and stand back 10', just don't shoot your chrono

Powder measuring is weird. The thrower that most of us use is by volume and performance seems to be by volume, yet we use weights to check our volume. Humidity in the air can change a weight.

I use the adjustable throwers. One is an RCBS stand alone and the other 8 or so are Dillon automatic throwers. I have never used a scoop. Some powders measure more consistently than others. The finer powders seem to do better (h-110, win 231, h-335). The pencil lead shaped powder such as IMR 4895 isn't as consistent. I am not a big fan of lee products. My grandfather had issues with the little round disk type powder thrower. His loads are all over the place.

For your chrono loads, try weighing each individual charge. You can zero the scale with a case on the scale, then add powder to the case and re-weigh that same exact case. This will give you the powder weight. This is how I measure for my progressive press. The good powder throwers have a bar inside that adjusts by screwing a bolt in or out to change the size of the cavity. A dillon or RCBS thrower will often throw within 0.1 grains of what you set it to. If it varies more than 2-3 tenths, it is unusual and something is off. If I set my thrower to 4.2 grains it will throw 4.1-4.3 grains. This is OK for most shooting. If you are at a max load, that difference could be hard on your gun. DO NOT LOAD TO MAX.

I usually run 10 rounds to get a sample for a chrono. If you still have more than 100 fps difference between them, it may be the chrono conditions. Brass will vary by weight. bullets can vary a little as well. I don't care about sorting brass by headstamp or weight. I also don't look for extreme accuracy in my loads, and I don't load max loads for anything other than my dad's compensated race gun (this gun is built to take loads that are hotter than the max load in a book).

Make a load that works well in your gun and forget about pushing it to the limit. I can't tell the difference between 45 and 47 grains of powder in my 460 and neither can anyone else I shoot around. The book says 45 minimum and 48.5 maximum and a velocity of 2084 to 2254 fps. My minimum load isn't as fast as what the book says it should be. They didn't use my exact gun for the test, so of course it will vary. Having consistent numbers is more important.

[CGT80]

As I was almost done typing your reply, I looked up your load. It is over max according to the powder company's web site and according to my books.

I have not seen AA or Accurate Arms listed as AAC, but maybe it means Accurate Arms Company. I want to be sure we are looking at the same powder. I also am not sure if you are loading only for a 44 mag desert eagle, or if you are loading for a 44 mag revolver and also some sort of Desert Eagle. Your posts are a little unclear. It is easier to read a recipe like this:

44 mag (for S&W revolver)
240 hornady XTP bullet
18-18.2 grains of AA#7
COAL 1.575"

That is just an example, something similar will paint a clearer picture and help others to help you.I also keep a log of most of the loads I try that looks similar. I make notes next to the load, and add in chrono numbers when I have them.

The seating depth for a revolver and a desert eagle may be different. With revolvers, I usually seat the bullet to the cannelure or ring that is in the bullet. If there is no cannelure I will go by the book or set it until it looks right. If I guess on the depth, it will be with a light load. If I seated it too deep, it just bumped my pressure up a little. Since I am on the low end of the scale, I have room for more pressure. My 460 hot loads are to the book and that matches what I get when I crimp the case into the cannelure. On lighter loads I will mix and match data for different shapes or types of bullets.

I have only shot a desert eagle once (I wasn't impressed). I don't know how to determine seating depth with them. On my autos, I will take the barrel out of the gun and drop a round into it, then push on the round with my thumb. If the round doesn't drop out easily, or it has marks on the bullet, it is too long and is engaging the rifling.

A hollow point from one company may have a different shape than one from another company and can vary in the depth that it can be seated. It is better to seat to a longer overall case length than a shorter one, as long as the ammo feeds. My moms 9mm will run a round at 1.120" so I load to 1.115" to give room for play. 9mm ammo is 1.169" max, but it won't work with the bullet we use. My 9mm gun will probably run the same bullet out to 1.169" because the rifling has been tapered, but the mags I use will only feed a round that is 1.135". I load mine to 1.125". If a few go over when loaded it is no big deal. If I loaded to 1.100" the pressure would go up. I don't need them that short, so I don't load them that short.

On revolvers, the max length is usually whatever the cylinder will hold and spin freely. When possible, crimp the case into the cannelure to prevent the bullet from moving under heavy recoil. A revolver is a little more simple to load for.

Here is the data I found:

No.7 240 HDY XTP 14.5 1,145 16.1 1,302 34,800 1.560

your load was 18-18.2. What does your book list?

This load is for rainier flat point bullets and is out of the AA PDF file:

No.7 240 RAN FP 14.0 1,163 15.6 1,322 32,451 1.575

I would stick with the lower end if it runs OK in your gun.

Here is a load from Hodgon powder for a 240 Nosler bullet and H-110. I would run the minimum load of 23 grains. Do NOT go lower than the minimum on this powder. It wont act right. Also, you will likely need a Large Pistol MAGNUM primer. H-110 can be hard to light.

240 GR. NOS JHP Hodgdon H110 .429" 1.600" 23.0 1413 25,200 CUP 24.0 1522 36,200 CUP


If you want a light load and your shooting a revolver, try some win 231/hp-38 powder. Look up the loads. You can get away with going even lighter on the powder charge with this powder in some cases, but start with published loads. This powder is more forgiving than 296/110. Watch for double or triple charges with this powder. It doesn't fill up much of the case.

A great safe powder for a light load is trail boss. You can't use too much, as long as you don't compress it.

I found a load in my book under sierra bullets for Blue Dot. It looks like blue dot can give you a little more speed than #7.

240 grain jacketed
COAL 1.6"
blue dot 14.8-16.9
1150-1300fps

250 grain jacketed
COAL 1.6"
blue dot 14.7-16.5
1150-1250 fps

These are listed for jacketed, but you should be able to run the rainer plated bullets at the lowest powder charge which is 1150fps.

Check your data and let us know if your loads were hot, or if your books just list more powder than mine. Also, what gun are you loading 44 mag for?

[bubbapug1]

I have a few DE's, and as anyone who has shot them and gets to understand them knows, they are impressive accurate guns. They may not be 1911's or glocks, but they do fill a niche, and if you run out of ammo you can certainly club any assailant to death with one. The niche they fill is the one of hand cannon, and some people just love to have a semi hand cannon. I am not in love with them as much as some of my freinds, who will shoot $200.00 worth of 44 through one and not even think of shooting cheaper 9mm. Its an addiction to the boom.



I did some load testing with AA#9 and H110 to find what worked in my DE. I also ran tru-blue, green dot, etc. For a period of one month I had limited sucess with all loads as I had an old style spring extractor which was worn and I had numerous FTEs.

Many of the DE "experts" stated you needed a lot of "gas" to cycle a DE, and I got flamed for even "thinking" a DE might run with green dot or Tru-blue...I can say, after changing out the extractor, a DE is about as picky with ammo as a revolver...you can feed it 185 grain, 200 grain, and 240 grain, from 90% loads to 100% loads, and the gun pretty much eats it all.

H110 produces a gigantic report and lots of flame, even when loaded 10% below maximum of 24 grains of H110.

AA#9 produces substantially less recoil, with very little of the sound, recoil, and flame of H110.

My load test specifically were as follows:

H110 22 grains with a 240 grain plated xtreme and or berry bullet (I used both) or even a soft point 240 grain Winchester HP

Chrony readings (fps) 1093 1033 1045 1064 1056 1031

AA#9 - 18 grains with a 240 grain bullet, copper plated RNFP or winchester HP

Chrony readings (fps) 1059 1076 1084 1080 1080


The load H110 is much milder on recoil than a full load. (24 grain) However, it is anything BUT mild, about twice that of the aa#9 load and 3x that of a full 9mm load. Hodgden recommends against going under minimum (23 grains) on H110 as they claim it could produce a squib...I haven't seen it, but than again, I have only shot 1000 rounds of this stuff. The kids love it, but as you can see from the chrony readings it is all over the map.

The AA#9 is way more gentle, less recoil, flame, way less report, but faster. I prefer to shoot the AA#9 myself, but if I need to clean out a lane of newbies yuppies at the range I will start to shoot the H110, and that usually does the trick unless you have some hard core shooters next to you.

Don't run lead bullets in a DE. The lead could block the gas port, making the DE a very heavy expensive single shot

[CGT80]

H110 is reported to hang fire and act somewhat sporadic or unusual when loaded below min loads. I haven't tried it at less than what the books list. It is also reccomended to use magnum primers to help the burn, and supposedly eliminates the hang-fire issue with normal loads.

Hey Bubba, can you give any info on seating depth for the bullet? Is seating depth critical on the DE like a semi auto or does it use the rim of the case to seat to the chamber like a revolver?

[stilly]

... (A LOT of GOOD STUFF)...

[CGT80]

Before, it looked like you had loaded a 240 hornady with 18 grains of #7. It was over what my book lists. In your last post it looks like it was really a 200 hornady, which makes more sense. It isn't uncommon for a lighter bullet to use more powder.

I only took a quick look at your test loads, but it looks like you are on track. Start with the lightest first, if you do more than one amount of a powder, and work your way up with the testing if everything goes well with the light load. You can always choose not to shoot a hotter version even if you did bring it to the range.

I just made some test loads with A 5744 today. I looked up more info on that powder. It used to be accurate arms or AA. The company has changed and is now just called Accurate Powder. Looks like they have had a few names. It looks like they are the only company that will have #7 #9 5744 and etc. So the number is the most important part.

I did as you did. I loaded 5 rounds of each load I wanted to try. I started low and worked my way up to about 80-90% of the max for that powder. I will start with the low end when I shoot. I also plan to chrono my rounds.

I found some recipes on the net that should work in my gun. I started to compare that data to the powder companies web site and my books. It didn't add up. They looked too hot. I only saw one source for that hot of a load and it happened to be with a plated rainer bullet as well. I will start with my lower charge weights first. The load was for 1600 fps, but I can't see pushing it that fast. I don't know if the data is wrong, or if it fired but wasn't checked for key holes on a target, or if that one person got lucky and it worked OK. Like you, I have a box of rainier bullets on hand (came with some other loading stuff I bought) and I would like to use them for a medium load rather than use up the more expensive jacketed bullets I bought. I bought hornady xtp mag since my revolver can spit a 240 grain bullet out at 2200 fps, but I don't plan to shoot enough of them to buy a whole case and get a nice discount. I plan to cast my own bullets for lighter loads-maybe I will run a gas check cast bullet for faster ones, but I don't have the right mold yet. I will see what I can do with the plated bullets. I don't expect to be able to push them past 1250fps, but I may try a few. I have only read about the problems with going past that. It can be difficult to figure out what is accurate and what is FUD when it comes to reloading.

I did see a listing in the accurate powder load chart for copper bullets under 460 S&W. It said copper bullets, not copper plated. The brand is Barnes. They are some expensive bullets and I am 99% sure that they are solid copped without lead. They are probably for hunting and would hold up to the high speeds. These are listed at up to 2400 fps out of a revolver. Is it possible that some of what you have seen was for a solid copper bullet? I do not doubt that some of the data is for plated, because like I mentioned before, I have heard of some high speeds for plated. It is just something that most people don't do. I'm sure most religions don't allow a father to kill his daughter for making the family name look bad, but I have heard that there is at least one that that does allow it. Not everything is black and white, and that can be very frustrating.

Stilly, It looks like you are getting the hang of this. Just think things out. It would be easy for me to load an unverified recipe from the net. It only takes the slight movement of my finger to go from a nice working pistol to one that may be ruined and possibly cause me harm. I thought about that with the 1600 fps load I saw. It probably wouldn't have damaged my gun that time, but I was trusting someone else with my life. I can check similar loads and then work my way up to that load if I can find some data to back it up. I can be patient and enjoy the process and get where I want to go.

Part of the hobby is learning new information and building new loads. I could have settled on two or three loads for my revolver by now, but I think I can do better, and I decided to change part of the formula with casting a new bullet type. I will come up with more results and then choose something to use as a long term load. I only have one load for my 9mm race gun right now. It works and it is consistent. When I got the 9mm barrel, I bought a box of every bullet that berrys had in 9mm, same when I got the gun with the original 40 cal barrel. I have one load I like when I use the 40. It has taken me about 2 years to settle on that one 9mm recipe. I still think about changing it to make it less expensive, but then I think to myself "It performs the best and achieves my goals for that gun, don't fix what isn't broke."

Good luck

I'll keep an eye out for your thread with the chrono results, I am curious.

[stilly]

Yeah the powder thing bugs. I am still digesting that the lighter bullets can take more powder. After reviewing the load data I was like, how so? Typically you use more of something to push something heavier. Powder must not be like gas. :\

Also, There is not a chance that the copper bullets were misread. Copper bullets are made by Barnes and a few others I think and they are expensive. Best for certain areas that have banned steel and lead etc. Also good for indor ranges I guess. I am happy with the Leadsafe Rainiers because they are cheap, they are totally encapsulated, they are cheap, they look god and still fit and they are cheap. Oh, and they are cheap too. I am thinking that the BOLEE (Book of Lee) has used a 16" carbine barel to test a lot of things out. that or a bigger barrel altogether. I am placing my trust in the string that bubbapug1 posted with the 240gr rainiers at about 1050fps. If I get the same numbers I may start removing pages from the book unless they explain how they got their velocities with some of their loads. But since Mr. Lee states that he reloaded for rifle and shotty mostly I am willing to bet a smal amount that he used a rifle for the 44mag loads. I only say this because I have latched onto a piece of info somewhere that you need to add or subtract about 50fps per inch of barrel. So to go from a 16" to a 6" barrel is to subtract about 500 fps which puts me in the range that bubbapug1 posted.
As far as powder measures go, I still have to use mine because I had paid money for it but I am looking around for a more accurate one. I found the RCBS one that looked like it was good and maybe I might pick up that hornady one since I plan on getting a lock n load later on down the line. Of course if I buy a stand alone powder measure then it kinda defeats the purpose of my turret. >:

My friend talked me into making 10 of each of those loads and it might get done today. I will know more later on.

Also, I am glad you posted ONE of the powder burn lists that I had previously seen. Although it did not yet make sense to me, it is kind of slowly coming around if I find my powders listed on it and look closer. One thing I hate about that list though is that I saw a bigger list elsewhere and it pisses me off too that there is no MASTER list for powders. Or is the one that listed either 227 or 212 the master list?


Good info good info.
Damn BOLEE is making an oxymoron out of a stress relieving hobby...

Before, it looked like you had loaded a 240 hornady with 18 grains of #7. It was over what my book lists. In your last post it looks like it was really a 200 hornady, which makes more sense. It isn't uncommon for a lighter bullet to use more powder.

I only took a quick look at your test loads, but it looks like you are on track. Start with the lightest first, if you do more than one amount of a powder, and work your way up with the testing if everything goes well with the light load. You can always choose not to shoot a hotter version even if you did bring it to the range.

I just made some test loads with A 5744 today. I looked up more info on that powder. It used to be accurate arms or AA. The company has changed and is now just called Accurate Powder. Looks like they have had a few names. It looks like they are the only company that will have #7 #9 5744 and etc. So the number is the most important part.

I did as you did. I loaded 5 rounds of each load I wanted to try. I started low and worked my way up to about 80-90% of the max for that powder. I will start with the low end when I shoot. I also plan to chrono my rounds.

I found some recipes on the net that should work in my gun. I started to compare that data to the powder companies web site and my books. It didn't add up. They looked too hot. I only saw one source for that hot of a load and it happened to be with a plated rainer bullet as well. I will start with my lower charge weights first. The load was for 1600 fps, but I can't see pushing it that fast. I don't know if the data is wrong, or if it fired but wasn't checked for key holes on a target, or if that one person got lucky and it worked OK. Like you, I have a box of rainier bullets on hand (came with some other loading stuff I bought) and I would like to use them for a medium load rather than use up the more expensive jacketed bullets I bought. I bought hornady xtp mag since my revolver can spit a 240 grain bullet out at 2200 fps, but I don't plan to shoot enough of them to buy a whole case and get a nice discount. I plan to cast my own bullets for lighter loads-maybe I will run a gas check cast bullet for faster ones, but I don't have the right mold yet. I will see what I can do with the plated bullets. I don't expect to be able to push them past 1250fps, but I may try a few. I have only read about the problems with going past that. It can be difficult to figure out what is accurate and what is FUD when it comes to reloading.

I did see a listing in the accurate powder load chart for copper bullets under 460 S&W. It said copper bullets, not copper plated. The brand is Barnes. They are some expensive bullets and I am 99% sure that they are solid copped without lead. They are probably for hunting and would hold up to the high speeds. These are listed at up to 2400 fps out of a revolver. Is it possible that some of what you have seen was for a solid copper bullet? I do not doubt that some of the data is for plated, because like I mentioned before, I have heard of some high speeds for plated. It is just something that most people don't do. I'm sure most religions don't allow a father to kill his daughter for making the family name look bad, but I have heard that there is at least one that that does allow it. Not everything is black and white, and that can be very frustrating.

Stilly, It looks like you are getting the hang of this. Just think things out. It would be easy for me to load an unverified recipe from the net. It only takes the slight movement of my finger to go from a nice working pistol to one that may be ruined and possibly cause me harm. I thought about that with the 1600 fps load I saw. It probably wouldn't have damaged my gun that time, but I was trusting someone else with my life. I can check similar loads and then work my way up to that load if I can find some data to back it up. I can be patient and enjoy the process and get where I want to go.

Part of the hobby is learning new information and building new loads. I could have settled on two or three loads for my revolver by now, but I think I can do better, and I decided to change part of the formula with casting a new bullet type. I will come up with more results and then choose something to use as a long term load. I only have one load for my 9mm race gun right now. It works and it is consistent. When I got the 9mm barrel, I bought a box of every bullet that berrys had in 9mm, same when I got the gun with the original 40 cal barrel. I have one load I like when I use the 40. It has taken me about 2 years to settle on that one 9mm recipe. I still think about changing it to make it less expensive, but then I think to myself "It performs the best and achieves my goals for that gun, don't fix what isn't broke."

Good luck

I'll keep an eye out for your thread with the chrono results, I am curious.

[stilly]

...I'll keep an eye out for your thread with the chrono results, I am curious.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=8486481#post8486481

I uhh, need to take a cold shower and then go load up some more H110. I need to do some now at 23.5gr and 24gr... Oh WTH, Maybe some 25gr too! (j/k, kinda, maybe.)