Are Primers in Short Supply Again?

[freonr22]

They legally can't do that. Why do you think that? As long as you're abiding by the laws then they have to honor their policies. I'm of course assuming tha you live in a detached single family residence.

Politely they can. They will use nfpa 495 as a good recommendation r3 zoning or not. U will be sol. Think not? I'm open. Did a google. All reference the nfpa 495. Not a law but the std apparently. Contact the local fire dept and zoning ord depending on the state

[Cowboy T]

Check out Widener's. They've got the Wolf primers for $15.50 and $16. They're good and they work.

[fabguy]

Just curious, what's the limit on powder? In a single family detached garage

[AMeyer]

Thank You All!

Thanks for the help ... and for crackin' me up (some of you have a real sense of humor). I found primers at PV. Had forgotten about them. Thank you for reminding me.

[sargenv]

I believe CA fire code says 20 lbs or 50 if in a fire resistant cabinet.

[XDRoX]

Politely they can. They will use nfpa 495 as a good recommendation r3 zoning or not. U will be sol. Think not? I'm open. Did a google. All reference the nfpa 495. Not a law but the std apparently. Contact the local fire dept and zoning ord depending on the state

I respectfully don't agree with your opinion.

Just curious, what's the limit on powder? In a single family detached garage

This is the fire code regulations regarding powder and primers. Certain cities may have stricter codes but I have not been able to find anything stricter than what's written here.

Excerpt from the California Fire Code:

3306.4.1 Black powder and smokeless propellants. Propellants for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 pounds (9 kg) of black powder or 20 pounds (9 kg) of smokeless powder shall be stored in original containers in occupancies limited to Group R-3. Smokeless powder in quantities exceeding 20 pounds (9 kg) but not exceeding 50 pounds (23 kg) kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1 inch (25 mm) nominal thickness shall be allowed to be stored in occupancies limited to Group R-3. Quantities exceeding these amounts shall not be stored in any Group R occupancy.

3306.4.2 Small arms primers. No more than 10,000 small arms primers shall be stored in occupancies limited to Group R-3.

In plain English this means:
No more than 20lbs of black powder for anyone at one location.
You may have between 20-50lbs of smokeless powder, but it must be kept in a wooden box at least 1" thick in you're zoned R3.
No more than 50lbs of smokeless powder for anyone at any one loacation.
No more than 10k primers if you're zoned R3.

If you live in a normal detached home you're more than likely zoned R1 and don't need to worry about the primer limits.
If anyone has more accurate information on actual regulations please post. Also if your translation is different than mine of the above excerpt please post. I'm open to everything I can find on this topic.

[GSwain]

If an insurance company can deny your claim because you have d pit bull, which most companies refuse to cover, why can they not deny your claim if more than 10k primers is against their policy? After all it is a contract between you and them. Just remember tho, completed ammunition is g2g, as it isn't components.

[XDRoX]

If an insurance company can deny your claim because you have d pit bull, which most companies refuse to cover, why can they not deny your claim if more than 10k primers is against their policy? After all it is a contract between you and them. Just remember tho, completed ammunition is g2g, as it isn't components.

If an insurance company has a 10k primer limit then of course don't have more than 10k. I'm sure most insurance companies do not have a primer limit written into their policy. For most things like this they will refer to normal fire codes which I posted above. If you're really that concerned just call and ask.

Every time I've had to deal my my insurance company they have done everything in their power to satisfy me. Once my house got burglarized. They asked me to make a list of stolen property. I did and they wrote me a check for $8k. And dropped my $1000 deductible just to be nice. Once my car got hit when it was parked and the person that hit it took off. I called my agent and he said to take the car anywhere I wanted to get it fixed and send them the bill.

Recently I was looking for new tenants for a rental house of mine. I called them and asked about dogs and they said it didn't matter what type of dogs the tenants had. The policy I have covering my rental covers any types of dogs.

I have never asked them about primer limits but I'm pretty sure the would refer to the fire code.

I have Framers Insurance if anyone was wondering. 2 houses, 3 cars, a motorcycle, and life insurance through them.

[mjmagee67]

As an Assistant Fire Marshal let me clear something up R-3 is not a "Zone" R-3 is an occupancy classification. A R-3 Occupancy is "Buildings that do not contain more than two dwelling units" Or Single Family Dwellings or Duplexes. When you talk of "zones" you are talking about Planning designations which have nothing to do with Building and Fire Codes. Planning is very political, Codes are not so much (unless legislature writes the code, then it normally makes no sense and does not follow the context of the code!)

As far as the sections listed above 3306.4.1 & 3306.4.2 I can NOT find those in the 2010 (the latest) Code book nor can I find those on the California Building Standards Commission web site. http://www.bsc.ca.gov/codes.aspx or the ICC web site http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/...0v10/index.htm . So while those sections may amended in some jurisdictions they DO NOT apply to the whole state. Local jurisdictions can be more restrictive and can rewrite sections if they chose. But in the current Code book Section 3306 is reserved with no code text.

If you have any more question please ask!

PS My jurisdiction uses NFPA and Title 19 and our reference for gun powder and primers. BUT Fire Departments do not regulate Single Family Dwellings. So in a R-3 we have no jurisdiction, that is the Building Department and Code Enforcements jurisdiction.

[XDRoX]

As an Assistant Fire Marshal let me clear something up R-3 is not a "Zone" R-3 is an occupancy classification. A R-3 Occupancy is "Buildings that do not contain more than two dwelling units" Or Single Family Dwellings or Duplexes. When you talk of "zones" you are talking about Planning designations which have nothing to do with Building and Fire Codes. Planning is very political, Codes are not so much (unless legislature writes the code, then it normally makes no sense and does not follow the context of the code!)

As far as the sections listed above 3306.4.1 & 3306.4.2 I can NOT find those in the 2010 (the latest) Code book nor can I find those on the California Building Standards Commission web site. http://www.bsc.ca.gov/codes.aspx or the ICC web site http://publicecodes.citation.com/st/...0v10/index.htm . So while those sections may amended in some jurisdictions they DO NOT apply to the whole state. Local jurisdictions can be more restrictive and can rewrite sections if they chose. But in the current Code book Section 3306 is reserved with no code text.

If you have any more question please ask!

PS My jurisdiction uses NFPA and Title 19 and our reference for gun powder and primers. BUT Fire Departments do not regulate Single Family Dwellings. So in a R-3 we have no jurisdiction, that is the Building Department and Code Enforcements jurisdiction.

Although you sound like you know what you're talking about (and I'm sure you do), you have completely lost me.

Is there a limit on the amount of primers someone can have at one location?
If you don't know the answer do you know how I can find it?
Thanks.

[mjmagee67]

Although you sound like you know what you're talking about (and I'm sure you do), you have completely lost me.

Is there a limit on the amount of primers someone can have at one location?
If you don't know the answer do you know how I can find it?
Thanks.

To answer your question----the following are excerpts from Title 19 the California Health & Safety Code!!



1574.5. Storage Containers.
All smokeless powder and black sporting powder shall be stored in
U.S.D.O.T. approved shipping containers, or in a container approved by
the "Chief' having jurisdiction

1575. Primer Containers.
Small arms ammunition primers shall not be transported or stored except
in the original shipping container approved by the U.S.D.D.T.

1575.4. Required Magazine Use.
Quantities of small arms ammunition primers in excess of 750,000
shall be stored in magazines in accordance with Article 4.

1575.5. Storage Limitations.
Not more than 750,000 small arms ammunition primers shall be stored
in anyone building, except as provided in Section 1591.6; not more than
100,000 shall be stored in anyone pile, and piles shall be at least 15 feet
apart.

Here is the link to Title 19 http://www.archive.org/details/gov.ca.ccr.19 and the section you are looking for is Article 12 starts on page 101.

As far as NFPA I am at home today and do not have access to that document. But I believe it is the source for the guidelines in Title 19 Health & Safety Code!

[fabguy]

I think in the middle of the 2nd paragraph he was saying that local jurisdiction may override, and it is up to building code enforcement to dictate amount allowable.

I think he is saying " don't stir the pot, and it won't smell"....... J/K...
I think I better build a 1-1/2" walled box just to be safe for both locations.

[mjmagee67]

I think in the middle of the 2nd paragraph he was saying that local jurisdiction may override, and it is up to building code enforcement to dictate amount allowable.

I think he is saying " don't stir the pot, and it won't smell"....... J/K...
I think I better build a 1-1/2" walled box just to be safe for both locations.

True BUT the number can not be made up on the spot arbitrarily and capriciously, it has to be adopted in to law by the City Counsel or County Counsel and published in to law. If they do not do that it will fall back on state law.

[XDRoX]

Thanks Magee.

[jonzer77]

I just received my order from Graf's and they accidentally sent me a 4lb keg of 231 instead of 8lbs. When I called them they apologized and said that they have been slammed with orders for powder and primers recently and that they would get another 4lb out to me right away. I don't know how true it is or if he was just saying that so I wouldn't get upset about it.