38spl/357 reloading q's

[HKMadness]

I have a fair amount of experience Reloading .45, 9mm, and 223 but will soon start reloading .38spl and .357 magnum. I just have a few q's that I can't seem to find the answers for:

1. I was thinking about getting 158 lead swc'ers from either precision delta or xtreme. Are these good for .38/+p/.357?

2. I've used bullseye, 700x, and currently have w231 on hand. I loved bullseye, though it's a very fast and low volume powder. Is 231 good for .38/357? What I've read seems to be lots of unique, be, and a powder called "2400", so I may try one of those after I finish my 231.

3. Would pd's or xtreme's lead bullets be able to handle being pushed at 1200 fps? Would that be about as fast as I'd wanna go out of a 2.75" barrel? TIA.

[Bill Steele]

I like W231 a lot for lead in .38 and .357. Loading .357 cases using 158gr LSWC, 4.6grs will give you a nice light recoiling target round. 5.0grs will provide a little more pop, about 1000-1100fps. I doubt you will get to 1200fps with W231.

2400 is great "Magnum" powder. You might give it a try when you want to step on the gas a little in .357M. My all time favorite powder when loading attention grabbers in .357M and .44RM is AA#9.

Good luck, have fun.

[24Sailor]

For 38 / 357 I use 158 grain bullets generally. For 38 I load lead SWC and 357 jacketed bullets. I use standard small pistol primers in 38 and small magnum pistol primers in 357. The powders I use are Bullseye in 38 and 2400 or W296 in 357. The W296 is pretty lively stuff. A friend of mine used to have a shooting range when he was a firearms dealer. He was cleaning out a barn and brought me about 4 banana boxes full of brass of many calibers including a boat load of 38 and 357. So I've been busy.

Here's what I loaded and tested over the weekend using a 6" Colt Python:

38 spl: 158 gr. Hornady SWC (#10408), CCI 500 primers (35 years old), 3.4 gr. Hercules Bullseye (also 35 years old. Price tag is still on the canister $6.49 / Lb.). Nice lightweight plinker load. ~750 fps

357 Mag.: 158 gr. Hornady XTP JHP (#35750), Federal GM100M primers, 13.1 gr. 2400. I'll call these magnum medium loads. <1100 fps.

357 Mag.: 158 gr. Nosler SJHP (#44841), Federal GM100M primers, 15.5 gr. W296. Barn burners >1200 fps

[XDRoX]

For velocities from 600 to 800fps I use bullets of hardness 10.
For velocities from 800 to 1000fps I use hardness 12.
For over 1200fps I use hardness 18.

I get no leading at all.

My favorite powder for light 38spl loads is Trail Boss. For full powered magnum loads 2400 is my favorite. For anything in between most powders will work fine.
WST, 231, Unique, whatever... You could practically get anything to shoot in 38spl. You could triple load a 38spl/357 case with BE, so be careful if you use that.

[Fishslayer]

I've used Extreme 158gr SWC with 14gr of 2400 & they seem to work OK. You'll want to be careful not to overcrimp & cut into the plating. I've actually quit using them for heavy loads & just go with XTP or Nosler SJHP for the Big Dogs.

Alliant 2400 is a slow powder that's great for Big Dog 158gr loads. It can also be used for hyper velocity 125gr loads but I don't usually go that way.

The good thing about 2400 is that it does not require a magnum primer, meters very well and is a bit more forgiving of downloading.

H110 is also popular. I'm not real familiar with it but I believe it usually requires a magnum primer.

Slow powders generally require a good roll crimp for consistent combustion.

W231 is a medium powder. Right in the neighborhood of Unique which is a really popular medium pistol powder. The knock on Unique is that it's dirty when run at low pressure and doesn't meter really well. W231 (same powder as HP38) is fine grain and meters really well. I like it for 125gr .357 Magnum loads. It's also a good powder for other calibers. Very versatile.

For .38 Special I use 158gr LSWC and Bullseye or the 231.

[ireload]

HK
1. You are good to go with Precission Delta or Xtreme for the .38 spl (std or +P) and .357 mag.

2. Win 231 is a good powder for both caliber whether you use lead, plated or jacketed. Unique is in between Win 231 and 2400. Unique will give you more velocity for both caliber. Now 2400 shines well with full bore 140gr. and up .357 mag load. I've tried 2400 in .38 spl and have experienced some unburned flakes that can jam the cylinder.

3. Depending on the hardness of the cast lead. You definetly do not want to push softer cast bullets at 1,200 fps. You'll have severe leading. Like XD stated 18 and up hardness for over 1200 fps. I would call both company and ask the hardness of their cast bullets.

[rsrocket1]

Ditto on the Xtreme. I push the 30 cal 110g RN bullets to 1900+ fps using Unique in my .308 as light recoil plinkers. No problems with the plating.

I've pushed Silver State lead and Bear Creek Moly coated bullets as well as my own cast 158g lead bullets only to 1136 using 8g Power Pistol, but it is in a 4" gun, not 2.75". I prefer to load to no more than about 80% SAAMI max and there is no reason to go any faster, but you might be able to get 1200 fps out of a 2.75" gun with Hodgdon 4227, HS-6/Winchester 296 or Lil' Gun.

[HKMadness]

Thanks for all the info, guys. I knew y'all would be able to answer these q's. I really wanted to stick with lead on these rounds since .38's love lead like hookers love head and I'll be starting with .38 loads then move on to .38+p and then to 357.

I had read that lots of guys drop down to a lighter bullet like 125 grain for .357 and use plated, fmj or soft point. I'd prefer to stick with 158gn lswc for both however (at least initially). Thanks for letting me know I can and what too look for as far as hardness. Have a good one

[Clownpuncher]

I've used Unique, Titegroup, Bullseye, and 231 all with good results. 231 and titegroup seem to be my favorites. I use the 158gn plated berrys SWC. I get good results out of them and low smoke. I do alot of shooting indoors and all of the lead projectiles were smoke grenades when I was shooting inside.

[rsrocket1]

Even if you "mess up" and get a good coating of lead in your barrel, taking it off is no big deal. Get a 38 caliber bore mop and wrap a few strands of Chore Boy copper scouring pad (not the copper plated steel pads) around it and run it back and forth in the barrel. It literally takes about 1 minute to remove the lead. Yes you can spend a lot more and do just as good a job, but you don't have to.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add that I do use small rifle primers for 38/357 and 40 S&W loads. Why? Fewer varieties of primers needed in the reloading room which means I can have more primers available. I do have separate Large Rifle and Large Pistol primers as those two are not interchangeable.

[Cowboy T]

3. Depending on the hardness of the cast lead. You definetly do not want to push softer cast bullets at 1,200 fps. You'll have severe leading. Like XD stated 18 and up hardness for over 1200 fps. I would call both company and ask the hardness of their cast bullets.

Did some experiments with lead hardness not too long ago, with my .357M and ".45 Colt Magnum" loads. These are in the 30,000 PSI range and are moving just shy of 1,300 FPS.

Turns out that whether you use BHN 18, 15, or 10.5, you don't get leading...IF two things are in order:

1.) the boolits are properly sized for the gun, and
2.) there is proper lubrication.

Yep, that's right, BHN 12--straight wheel weights--works great in Magnum-style handgun loads. I was surprised, too, but it's hard to argue with the results. I've put 300 rounds of the .45 Colt Magnum round, using this alloy, through the Super Redhawk 454 and have no lead-fouling. I've got over 1,000 through the Security-Six with BHN 10.5, with similar results.

Where people usually get lead-fouling is that the bullets are A.) hard-cast, and B.) just slightly small for that gun. When this happens, you get gas-cutting, which will result in leading.

Also, if there's not proper lubrication (often the case, sadly), that'll do it, too. When I say "proper" lubrication, I don't necessarily mean "there's not enough on the bullet." I mean that "there's not enough lubrication working inside the barrel." With the hard-cast bullets, you'll often see that hard blue wax being used as lube. At most handgun velocities and pressures, that hard blue wax will not melt enough to coat the bore. It stays on the bullet all the way to the target. Some of you have probably seen this in recovered bullets or on your paper targets. There's enough lube on the bullet, but not enough of it is getting smeared throughout the chamber, the forcing cone, and the bore.

My solution to the lubing problem is to use either ye olde NRA 50/50 mix, which is soft lube; or tumble-lube with liquid Alox (aka "Xlox"). I was getting some fierce leading with some store-bought hard-cast, hard-wax-lubed bullets until I tumble-lubed 'em. Leading went away. I now use exclusively liquid Alox/Xlox for all my cast "boolits."

Hope this helps.

[HKMadness]

How do you ensure the bullets are the proper size for the gun? Arent they all .357 or .357 for .38spl and 357m?

So then should I not even bother with the match lubed bullets from pd? I usually swab the inside of the barrels on my usp's with motor oil, would that work?

[ckprax]

How do you ensure the bullets are the proper size for the gun? Arent they all .357 or .357 for .38spl and 357m?

So then should I not even bother with the match lubed bullets from pd? I usually swab the inside of the barrels on my usp's with motor oil, would that work?

The Hornady Lead SWCHP's I just bought are .358" Diameter, my XTP's are .357". You can slug your barrel and cylinders to determine what bullet will work best for your gun.

[XDRoX]

How do you ensure the bullets are the proper size for the gun? Arent they all .357 or .357 for .38spl and 357m?

So then should I not even bother with the match lubed bullets from pd? I usually swab the inside of the barrels on my usp's with motor oil, would that work?

What are you shooting them out of? More than likely you want .358.

.357 will lead like crazy in most revolvers. As Cowboy already stated, size is the most important factor in leading. Then hardness, lube, velocity, and even powder can play a roll. If you slug your barrel you'll know exactly what you need, but since you don't cast you're at the mercy of whatever you can find anyway. Buy .358, it'll most likely lead way less. Unless you are shooting these out of a match barrel of some sort, .358 will most likely work better.

[HKMadness]

what do you mean by "slug your barrel"?

Its going to be coming out of a ruger service six 2.75"