Writing a story (fiction), need technical advice on ammunition....

[beauregard]

Quick synopsis: next year a squad of men go back in time to change history, they are armed with modern small arms chambered in 5.56, 7.62, and 9mm.

What I need to know: how and what ammo would they carry that modern day forensics would not question a hundred years into the future? I'm thinking it would have to be custom loaded for their mission, because the ammo needs to kill in a way that when modern day pathologists look at the remains of a hundred year-old victim it would not raise any eyebrows.

I need to know what kind of ammo the troopers should carry into the past that will not leave a trace in the future- or a trace that would not fit the era in which the person was killed. I'm a stickler for details.

Thanks in advance, Beau

[XDRoX]

Do you want to know of similar calibers that were around 100 years ago instead of 762 and 556? Or how to make those calibers look like they were loaded 100 years ago? I guess I'm a little confused on what exactly you need

I think both the 556 and 762 were invented around the 50's.

But 9mm was around 100 years ago. Invented in 1902 for the Luger. I have some 9mm from the 20's in my garage in the boxes if you could use some pictures of it. Maybe even older. And it still shoots.

I know the 9mm was also only loaded in 124gr bullets back then.

[Exile Machine]

How far back in time are they going to go? Why are they killing hundred year old men?

[Matt C]

Frangible ammo. Like this:

http://www.shopcorbon.com/Glaser-Safety-Slug/500/500/dept

Won't be enough left of the round for anyone to look at, just bits of copper. You owe me a credit in your book.

[ElvenSoul]

Could not be done...could be done using surplus and C&R weapons...or better yet...send them back unarmed, but to a place in time where they could be issued/ purchase weapons of the day.

[bruceflinch]

Frangible ammo. Like this:

http://www.shopcorbon.com/Glaser-Safety-Slug/500/500/dept

Won't be enough left of the round for anyone to look at, just bits of copper. You owe me a credit in your book.

Butt de Brass, Boss! What about de Brass? Someone gonna forge/cast or dig up some vintage brass?

I want credit or a cookie!

[bruceflinch]

Could not be done...could be done using surplus and C&R weapons...or better yet...send them back unarmed, but to a place in time where they could be issued/ purchase weapons of the day.

Good Point! Send them back w/ gold or silver nuggets.

[killshot44]

the ammo needs to kill in a way that when modern day pathologists look at the remains of a hundred year-old victim it would not raise any eyebrows.

Since it's fiction...........How about projectiles made of human bone? Or of compressed carbon (we're all made of it)?

Maybe just make up a DARPA-likely weapon that uses some type of EMP or pulse-wave to stop a heart?

[G-forceJunkie]

So a band of men with space age (for the time) guns isnt going to raise a few eyebrows? With that said, I think your SOL trying to make a 5.56 look like anything available 100 years ago. The 30 cals could be loaded with period correct round nose bullets. The 9mm could be loaded with lead bullets similar to the .38 colts of the time.

[IntoForever]

7.62 was used over 100 years ago. I would load up frangibles so there is no definite caliber or lands/groove for anyone to analyze. If enough rounds were fired the forensics of today would have on record that it was available back then. Just make sure to recover all spent brass.

[captbilly]

9mm and 7.62 ok, but not. 223 (maybe)

It would depend on exactly when the killimg is supposed to take place but, 7.62 is simply 30 caliber and that goes back 100 years or more. As someone already noted they would need to use a bullet type tht existed at the time, probably full metal jacket round nose. The cases would have to be collected since the modern 7.62/.308 only came out about 50 years ago. Even if they used a 30.06, as used in the springfield, a modern head stamp on the case would give it away if the case could be connectes to the killing. 9mm luger, the 9 mm still used today, goes back over 100 years, but the bullet would probably have to be cast lead (or something used at the time of interest). The modern cases would have to be collected. 5.56 is. 22 caliber, which goes wy back, but the bullets and cases used in a modern 5.56/ .223 cartridge only go back about 50 years, so the 5.56 would be tough. Someone suggested frangable bullets, and that might work, but the autopsy would definitely find something funny going on with the little bits left from the bullet.

It boils down to exactly what evidence might be found. Autopsy data is very different than bullet remnants. It would be veey unlikely that the reaults of a 100+ year old autopsy ould find such irregularities as to suggest a killer from the future, but the bullets and cases, if saved until the present, would present a bigger challenge.

[VegasND]

Okay -- what are they going back to do?

Are they going to assassinate somebody? If so, they should use high quality reproductions of period firearms and ammunition so they won't raise any suspicions if their gear is looked at.

Are they going to arm a group and fight a campagn of some kind? In that case don't worry about it. There will probably be no way to cover all the tracks they'll make in the timeline and their exploits will probably become part of history. One way to try to cover this up might be to find a local and 'sponsor' their secret development of 'new' technology. Arm your grop with this and train secretly then surprise and overwhelm the opposition.

Might make a good story.

[AJAX22]

If you are going back far enough (pre 1800) The way to have it escape notice is to substitute the jacketed bullets with hand cast spherical shot using soft 'gumball' lead

You won't get a lot of rounds through the gun before you have to clean it (it will foul pretty quick) but no one will question some missshapen chunks of soft lead

[BigBronco]

Use a cartridge loaded with a bullet of the day encased in a sabot. One can be designed for almost any rifle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabot

[BigBronco]

oops