Noob question about 3-4 pc die set

[760practicalshooter]

What's the advatage to the 4 pc die set vs. the 3 pc?

I.E. is the 4pc necessary?

[gunboat]

Necessary? no. Often nice, yes --
Since millions of rounds have been loaded with two die sets, 4 dies are hardly an absolute need -
The function of the dies in a multi-die sets can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Some squeeze, some neck size, some crimp, and so forth.

[760practicalshooter]

Say you were loading with a SS Lee setup for 9mm. would a 3pc be sufficient or is the 4 pc. the way to go.?

[surfish95747]

Say you were loading with a SS Lee setup for 9mm. would a 3pc be sufficient or is the 4 pc. the way to go.?

I would just go with the 4 piece set up. It saves some time. I have been using the 4 piece for years now and i love it.

[760practicalshooter]

So 4pcs doesn't necessarily mean 4 part to the process then right?

[Bigdaa]

Lee has a "Powder through the Expander" die. It helps if you go progressive with Lee products. I have both Lee three and four die pistol sets. Does the extra die affect me and my single stage press? No.


The two die sets.........those are for rifle based cartridges.

[iareConfusE]

So 4pcs doesn't necessarily mean 4 part to the process then right?

The 4th die in a Lee die set is the FCD. All this does for the pistol cartridges is put a taper crimp on the pistol, and separates this step from the seating process. Some people believe that you shouldn't crimp and seat the bullet simultaneously, some people say it doesn't make a difference. For me, I like to use the FCD because it just seems a little less harsh on the bullet. When I tried using just the 3 die set, the seating/crimping die took off a lot of brass material from the mouth of the shell.

Just get the 4 die set, it only costs about $5-10 more, and you get a die that you don't necessarily have to use, but can if you want to. Or you can turn around and sell it if you find that it isn't needed.

[XDRoX]

I would just go with the 4 piece set up. It saves some time. I have been using the 4 piece for years now and i love it.

How does adding an extra step save time? Loading with 4 dies would take longer as there's a 4th die you'd have to run all the rounds through.


iareConfusE, please don't read the rest of my post as I respect your opinions and views and don't want you to hate me


Lee makes 3 die sets and 4 die sets. The only difference is the 4 die sets come with an extra die called the Lee Factory Crimp Die (LFCD).

The LFCD is a gimmick cleverly marketed by Lee to sell people something they don't need. Not only do you not need one, it can actually make your rounds less accurate.

No one has ever been able to tell me what the LFCD is suppose to do. If using a LFCD is making your ammo function better then you are doing something wrong. With a properly adjusted 3 die set, you should not get any issues. The problem is when people don't know how to properly adjust their dies, screw up rounds, and then shove them through a LFCD to "fix" them.

People have been reloading reliable ammo for a hundred years without this magic die. Why do we suddenly need it and what is it suppose to do?

What it does is size the whole round. Here's the problem. In order to size a round the die needs to be slightly smaller than the finished round because of back expansion. This means that besides "fixing" any abnormalities it is sizing a bullet that shouldn't be being sized. The bullet is already the right size. With FMJ, not a huge deal. The LFCD won't do too much damage. But with lead Any hand loader knows the importance of properly sized lead bullets. Even the slightest change in size can lead to awful results like leading. Even guys that use the LFCD don't use it on lead, even they admit it's not OK.

I have a buddy that posted some accuracy tests with rounds run through a LFCD and of course there was an obvious difference. Fully sizing a round after it's done can only cause problems.

So my take is do not buy the 4 die sets. There is no need for them and they do nothing.

BTW, I'm not arguing against seating and crimping in separate stages. On my progressive press I also seat and crimp in separate stages, but not with a LFCD.

I have also never seen the damage or difficulty with loading with the 3 dies sets. If I'm going to load on my single stage or my turret I always use a 3 die set and have never had a problem. I will agree that they are more difficult set up than a 4 die set, but come on, it's not that difficult to set up a 3 die set.

I'm normally not the argumentative type on forums but I feel like I have a calling against the LFCD, so I have my flame suit on and I'm ready to argue my views which I truly believe are accurate.

Sorry for the long rant.

[mnguyen84]

4 set. it comes with the neck expander which helps you seat the bullet with minimal wear.

[XDRoX]

4 set. it comes with the neck expander which helps you seat the bullet with minimal wear.

What? The 3 die set comes with an expander as well. Have you even read any of the replies in this thread? The difference is the 4 die set comes with the LFCD.

[760practicalshooter]

Thanks for all the replies!

More than likely with the 9mm I will be loading cheap lead bullets as it is so it sounds that I wouldn't need the 4 pc..

How does adding an extra step save time? Loading with 4 dies would take longer as there's a 4th die you'd have to run all the rounds through.


iareConfusE, please don't read the rest of my post as I respect your opinions and views and don't want you to hate me


Lee makes 3 die sets and 4 die sets. The only difference is the 4 die sets come with an extra die called the Lee Factory Crimp Die (LFCD).

The LFCD is a gimmick cleverly marketed by Lee to sell people something they don't need. Not only do you not need one, it can actually make your rounds less accurate.

No one has ever been able to tell me what the LFCD is suppose to do. If using a LFCD is making your ammo function better then you are doing something wrong. With a properly adjusted 3 die set, you should not get any issues. The problem is when people don't know how to properly adjust their dies, screw up rounds, and then shove them through a LFCD to "fix" them.

People have been reloading reliable ammo for a hundred years without this magic die. Why do we suddenly need it and what is it suppose to do?

What it does is size the whole round. Here's the problem. In order to size a round the die needs to be slightly smaller than the finished round because of back expansion. This means that besides "fixing" any abnormalities it is sizing a bullet that shouldn't be being sized. The bullet is already the right size. With FMJ, not a huge deal. The LFCD won't do too much damage. But with lead Any hand loader knows the importance of properly sized lead bullets. Even the slightest change in size can lead to awful results like leading. Even guys that use the LFCD don't use it on lead, even they admit it's not OK.

I have a buddy that posted some accuracy tests with rounds run through a LFCD and of course there was an obvious difference. Fully sizing a round after it's done can only cause problems.

So my take is do not buy the 4 die sets. There is no need for them and they do nothing.

BTW, I'm not arguing against seating and crimping in separate stages. On my progressive press I also seat and crimp in separate stages, but not with a LFCD.

I have also never seen the damage or difficulty with loading with the 3 dies sets. If I'm going to load on my single stage or my turret I always use a 3 die set and have never had a problem. I will agree that they are more difficult set up than a 4 die set, but come on, it's not that difficult to set up a 3 die set.

I'm normally not the argumentative type on forums but I feel like I have a calling against the LFCD, so I have my flame suit on and I'm ready to argue my views which I truly believe are accurate.

Sorry for the long rant.

[Chief-7700]

I use four dies and they are not made by Lee.
.45ACP reloading:
Station #1 Spent primer removal and resizing.
Station #2 New primer inserted, case mouth belled and powder dump
Station #3 Powder Check
Station #4 Bullet seating (with interchangeable seating inserts RN and SWC)
Station #5 Taper Crimp to remove the belling from Station #2 ( clean out excess lube from LSWC that build up in die body).
XDRox is correct about the Lee FCD if your dies are adjusted properly then you do not need one.

[Bill Steele]

YMMV

I don't have the experience loading handgun ammo as many on these boards. I have only loaded about 8000 rounds so far on my Lee Classic Turret, but on both my taper crimp rounds (9mm) and roll crimp rounds (.44 RM and .357 Mag.), I use the Lee FCD and have found them to work great.

I have been shooting for over 4 decades (ugh) and I think I know a little about accuracy. I have not found any accuracy degradation using the FCD. I am not saying others have not had different results, I can only speak for the results I have had with the dies I own. When asked, I always recommend the Lee four die sets, I have found them to be a great value.

[Chief-7700]

I don't have the experience loading handgun ammo as many on these boards. I have only loaded about 8000 rounds so far on my Lee Classic Turret, but on both my taper crimp rounds (9mm) and roll crimp rounds (.44 RM and .357 Mag.), I use the Lee FCD and have found them to work great.

I have been shooting for over 4 decades (ugh) and I think I know a little about accuracy. I have not found any accuracy degradation using the FCD. I am not saying others have not had different results, I can only speak for the results I have had with the dies I own. When asked, I always recommend the Lee four die sets, I have found them to be a great value.

Bill, I'm glad the Lee dies work for you. The one thing I love about Dillon die's is once the die body is set, I can drop the inserts out with the removal of a c-clip at the top. Clean out the crimp die or change the bullet profile in the seating die.
Chief

Chief

[760practicalshooter]

Can any dies be used in a lee SS setup or is it strictly proprietary?