Problems using lead bullets to spec

[tools2teach]

I am having issues using lead bullets 9mm which are .356 is diameter to spec. The only way I can get it to chamber is by expanding the mouth of the case to the very bottom of the mouth expander die and even then it still is somewhat of a tight fit using a case gauge and the bottom is not flush and the shape of it is like a coke bottle and not straight, whereas factory ammo or my other reloads using copper would just fall out. What am I doing wrong? I tried many different variations in setting my dies and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

[Chief-7700]

Looks like your attempting to load a .38 Super bullet .356 in to a 9mm .355 case.
The most common diameter for this cartridge in 0.354 inch. However, the industry standard has been recently been established at 0.355 inch.
All barrels of 0.354" to 0.356 are correctly matched with a bullet diameter of 0.355"

[tools2teach]

http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=dardas&Product_Code=91251000&Category_Code=9

I don't think so.

[Chief-7700]

Ok.

[bjl333]

Looks like your attempting to load a .38 Super bullet .356 in to a 9mm .355 case.
The most common diameter for this cartridge in 0.354 inch. However, the industry standard has been recently been established at 0.355 inch.
All barrels of 0.354" to 0.356 are correctly matched with a bullet diameter of 0.355"

I would have to agree with chief-7700 here. Ever since I can remember, it has been .355 for the 9mm. The reason you supplier suggested .356 is most reloader go .001 larger for lead casted bullets. But that was usually done for revolvers, because in the older autos the feeding ramp wasn't as nice as it is today.
You are not doing anything wrong, just a little harder to get the boolit into the case. You could try .355 if they have it, the .355s won't hurt anything. But I would look out for lead buildup on the feeding ramp. Thats the drawback of shooting cast lead bullets in an auto. Depending on how hard the casting are, you might have to peek down the barrel for lead also.

[J-cat]

The problem is that many 9mm guns are not made to this fictitious .355" specification. For example: I had a Sig P226 that slugged .354". I had three M9's that were all over .357". My P210 is .357". The only guns I slugged that were in the range of .355" were S&W and Rugers. Bulletwise, I had a box of Nosler 115's that miked .354", a box of Hornadys that miked .355" and a box of Speers that miked .356".

Being that 9mm bore diameters range from .354" to .357" and so do the bullets, reloading die manufacturers design their dies to work with all, i.e. .354" and up. That's why the case is sized that much and the resulting reload looks like a coke bottle.

9mm reloading dies are designed to load jacketed ammo. Using your standard 9mm expander is counterproductive if you're using lead bullets. I'd get a Lee universal expander. It costs $15 and only bells the mouth. It does not touch the case walls and results in maximum case tension on the bullet.

Finally, shooting lead in a 9mm is not for the novice. There are variables at work that need to be controlled, else severe leading will result. A novice is far better served with plated bullets or bulk FMJ.

[pisarski]

i size my 9mm & 38 super to .356 and they work fine all fit in case gage shoot great with no leading

[gunboat]

I cannot speak to modern 9mm weapons but my Luger and p38 lived on .356 cast bullets - The mould was 356402 and the bullet sizing die was .356 --

[sqroot3]

Finally, shooting lead in a 9mm is not for the novice. There are variables at work that need to be controlled, else severe leading will result. A novice is far better served with plated bullets or bulk FMJ.

Can you elaborate? which variables are you referring to?

Does anyone here use different caliber cast lead bullets for their different 9mm autoloaders?

[eaglemike]

I've used a lot of .356 and .357 bullets in 9mm. Bell the case mouth just enough for the bullet to easily sit squarely. Don't allow it to shave lead when seating the bullet. Cast bullets work best when sized slightly over groove diameter.

Use a proper powder. 9mm runs at higher pressures than .45acp and .38 special. Higher pressure mean higher temperatures, which can contribute to leading. Unigue is good, Universal Clays, other stuff in this general range. Accurate number 5 has been used. Some people get away with Bullseye and 231, but I've had better luck avoiding leading with the slower powders. WSF has also been used a lot, as has HS-6.

Most 9mm with a ramp on the barrel will feed almost anything close to proper length. Length will vary a bit depending which bullet you use. Pressures go up quickly as the bullet is seated deeper.

Use a gauge to check your loaded rounds. These are cheap engough and will save headaches at the range.

I've had very good luck with moly-coated lead bullets.

[J-cat]

Can you elaborate? which variables are you referring to?

Does anyone here use different caliber cast lead bullets for their different 9mm autoloaders?

I want to predicate this by saying I am working from the assumption there will be no leading as is the case in a 45 ACP 1911 pistol. I do not tolerate any leading. I can't live with a slight amount of leading. I want no leading period.

When loading cast bullets you have to match the bullet diameter to the groove diameter of the barrel, else you'll get gas cutting as the gas slips around the bullet shank.

Then you have the freebore. The bullet needs to be as close to the diameter of the freebore, but still able to chamber. 9mm freebores vary all over the place. Some have freebores so large there is not a mold out there that will work and even if there was, your reloading dies would not accept the bullet.

Then you have high pressure which creates it's own set of problems. This is not a 45 ACP that works fine with all levels of bullet hardness and powder burning rates. Here you have to match the alloy hardness to the pressure you're running and use an appropriate powder.

Then you have the rifling twist rate. Most 9mm's have a 1-10" twist which is too fast. Aftermarket barrels are in the neighborhood of 1-16". Colt uses 1-16". S&W PC guns use 1-18". Sig used to make a 1-20" for the P210. KKM uses 1-32".

So, if you have the worst case scenario, i.e. a Euro-brand .357" groove diameter with a .362" freebore and a 1-10" twist rate, you are royally screwed if you wanna use lead.

If you have a US made firearm, chances are your bore is going to be closer to .355" and you may get away with using .356" bullets, but you will be better served with .357"+ bullets as they will seal the freebore better.

[hypnoman]

probably occurs in many other firearms, too . . .

I want to predicate this by saying I am working from the assumption there will be no leading as is the case in a 45 ACP 1911 pistol. I do not tolerate any leading. I can't live with a slight amount of leading. I want no leading period.

When loading cast bullets you have to match the bullet diameter to the groove diameter of the barrel, else you'll get gas cutting as the gas slips around the bullet shank.

Then you have the freebore. The bullet needs to be as close to the diameter of the freebore, but still able to chamber. 9mm freebores vary all over the place. Some have freebores so large there is not a mold out there that will work and even if there was, your reloading dies would not accept the bullet.

Then you have high pressure which creates it's own set of problems. This is not a 45 ACP that works fine with all levels of bullet hardness and powder burning rates. Here you have to match the alloy hardness to the pressure you're running and use an appropriate powder.

Then you have the rifling twist rate. Most 9mm's have a 1-10" twist which is too fast. Aftermarket barrels are in the neighborhood of 1-16". Colt uses 1-16". S&W PC guns use 1-18". Sig used to make a 1-20" for the P210. KKM uses 1-32".

So, if you have the worst case scenario, i.e. a Euro-brand .357" groove diameter with a .362" freebore and a 1-10" twist rate, you are royally screwed if you wanna use lead.

If you have a US made firearm, chances are your bore is going to be closer to .355" and you may get away with using .356" bullets, but you will be better served with .357"+ bullets as they will seal the freebore better.

Wow, I deal with this stuff in MilSurp rifles, but never expected it to occur in the world of pistols, too. I guess the deeper we dig . . .