Help with ruptured case...double charge?

[ty423]

Went to the range today with some reloads I made awhile back. Sig P220R about 300rds fired through it. 200gr xtreme FP. 4.7gr Bullseye powder. Fiocchi casing which I have no clue how many times it's been reloaded. I'm a few months new to the reloading game. To me I original thought it was maybe a bad case but after another look I noticed the primer was flat. Now I'm guessing it was a double charge. Any expert can point out what I did wrong here? thanks.

The bottom of the mag blew out and the spring/follower/plate all blew out. The right side of the grips pushed open. The trigger bar was out of sync and popping out wedging itself between the grip and frame. The guys at OnTarget helped me take it apart and we inspected it and found the frame to be good. All the other parts seems alright. Funtion tested it and it was all working smoothly. Some parts just got out of line because the grip actually helps the spring and trigger bar stay in place. From the looks of it all I need to get is new grips.

My hands were ok with abit of powder residue on my trigger finger and back palm. something hit my lip and under the nose causing small gashes/scratch.

Here are some pics.







This is after I put the parts in place and tried function test it. When it blew the trigger bar was pushing the grip out further and it wedged the slide so it was stuck open 1in.

[Boots]

wow... good thing you were seriously hurt. Also a bonus that the SIG survived the ordeal.

[shooting4life]

Looks like a double to me

[J-cat]

Yup.

[oldgoat]

+1 on the double charge. I exploded an M1 carbine once from reloads with the incorrect power type, something I'll never forget.

[ojisan]

Also watch for chunks of cleaning media stuck in the case before charging it.
This is most likely to happen if you use a wet polishing agent in your cleaning media.
Chunks of media can drive pressures sky high with a normal charge because of the reduced internal volume.

[bjl333]

Guys, It may not be a double charge on his part !!! Did you pick up casings from the ground ??? It could be a Glock unsupported chamber casing he picked up. I've seen a few casings that look like that on the ground. With a fat belly bulge that looks like the one OP has, without the hole.
ty423, Do you remember seeing a bulge on the casing before you resized it ???

[ty423]

ty423, Do you remember seeing a bulge on the casing before you resized it ???

I do not remember any bulge. I'm going to take apart the rest of the ammo which is about 40-50rds and inspect them all. Honestly the primer pretty much tells the story of over pressure. I'm leaning more towards over charge...not necessarily a "double" hell maybe even a triple... but either way I screwed up.

I looked at my pics again and you can see the spent casings I picked up in the box under the ruptured case. You can compare the shape of the primer vs. the ruptured one and can easily see that it does not look the same.

[Linkpimp]

First and foremost.. Thank GOD your ok.. I have to ask, as it helps with the newbie’s. You did have on your shooting glasses right?

WOW.. I’m glad your pistol made it out ok too, a new grip is nothing in the scheme of things.


I’ve got a couple of questions for you if you don't mind..

1. What primer are / were you using ?? (quick note) I ask this question because some manufactures primers burn hotter than others.. Yes you can have 3 standard primers that all burn differently.. Example CCI standard primers will burn hotter than standard Winchester primers. This actually does make a difference in the long run mainly do to the fact that your using a fast burning powder too.. Bullseye powder is a extremely fast burning powder it’s actually # 6 out of 173..

2. What do the other primers look like on rest of used brass? Are all they showing of pressure?

3. 4.7 gr is nothing for .45 acp, that’s approx 750v. 4.5 gr = 700v, the min.. you might want to look at bumping up charge abit, you’ll probably get better accuracy but your feel the kick more.. Sorry I got sidetracked..

4. What’s your OAL?

5. Did you crimp the bullet to tight?

6. Are you sure you had the flash whole clean / clear perior to primer it

7. How old is the brass? Are your other brass showing signs of bulging at the base of the brass?

8. Are any of your primers coming out of the back of your used brass? have they raised up in the pocket?

See where I’m going here.. don't / well I don't jump to a double tap until I know a little more of what’s going on..

Again I’m sorry sir.. But this may be a great learning experience for someone.

Link..

[bjl333]

Yeah ty, It does look like your load was hot. I saw your casing and the first thing I thought of were the bulged 45 casings I saw at Burro 2 Wednesday ago. Look in the empties and see if there are any other flatten primers. Check the dimensions of your chamber as well, make sure thats in spec.

Very fortunate to still have you telling us a story !!!

[bjl333]

Jus thought of something, split a couple of same batch Fiochi casings and see if the base wall is wearing thin.

[ty423]

I found another guy on another forum with the same looking casing. Everyone on that board is pointing to double or over charge. I'm going to check all my loads tonight.

http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=68840&page=1&pp=10

[CodeDog]

This is why I weigh all may charges.
I put the casing on the scale with a little funnel in it, zero the scale and then scoop my powder.
No matter what, it's easy to see an over or under charge. Even if someone distracts me I can never accidentally do a double charge since the digital scale display would clue me in right away.

[G-forceJunkie]

Are you reloading one by one, or on some sort of progressive press? Its real easy to double charge a case with a progressive press if something goes wrong during a cycle. You stop half way, lower the ram a bit, fix the problem (placing the bullet, etc) then finish the ram. Problem is it was possable the powder dropped twice. I have a rule, when reloading on a progressive press, anytime I have to stop mid-pull to fix anything, I pull every case out of the shell holder and start over.

[dstiltner]

Are you reloading one by one, or on some sort of progressive press? Its real easy to double charge a case with a progressive press if something goes wrong during a cycle. You stop half way, lower the ram a bit, fix the problem (placing the bullet, etc) then finish the ram. Problem is it was possable the powder dropped twice. I have a rule, when reloading on a progressive press, anytime I have to stop mid-pull to fix anything, I pull every case out of the shell holder and start over.

+1

Very sage advice. This situation is not so obvious with a .45 and a powder like W231. A double charge is very difficult to see since there is so little powder in the case. I released this while loading 10mm with blue dot. A double charge spills all over the place. Once I realised what had happened after doing a mid-pull adjusting a plated pullet to prevent shearing of the plating, I pulled all of my .45s from that session since I had did the same thing on a couple of rounds. I was fortunate to catch this at the press instead of the range. I have since increased the flare on my expander so that I dont have to deal with the plated bullets shearing. I would rather lose brass a bit sooner to a split neck which I will catch on inspection of the brass or completed round than lose a hand, gun or worse. I am also planning on switching to a powder when I am done with this jug of W231 with a powder that will fill the case more so a double charge will be obvious like all of the other calibers I reload.