crimp on .38 special

[opos]

Going to load some .38 special and some .357 now and just had a question about crimps. plan to use only jacketed bullets (might use some plated bullets like Berrys but not sure on that...and for sure no lead bullets ) and I figured to just use the roll crimp that is part of the seating die on an RCBS carbide die set...I have a friend that swears by the separate Lee taper crimp die...I thought the taper die was primarily made for a cannalured cartridge and for semi autos (my .38 and .357 are for a GP100 only) and that a straight cartridge does just fine with the regular old roll crimp..any thoughts? thanks

[maxit]

Dear OPos, just fine.
the taper crimp is for cartridges that head space off the front end.
your 38's and 357's head space off the rear rim.
What powder and how much are you using?
I am just adding a J frame .38 to my collection and want to review my loads.
Of course I do shoot lead.

regards,
Max

[bjl333]

My old RCBS carbide dies does roll and a loaded boolit (cartridge) comes out !!! The roll crimp has serve me for the last 30+yrs in a revolver. Your die set is just fine, same as mine.

[Cowboy T]

Roll crimps are what you want in a revolver cartridge. Assuming standard SAAMI pressure levels for your .38 Spl and .357 Mag, I'd suggest a light roll crimp for the .38 Spl, and a medium roll crimp for the .357M. That's what I use.

If you have a combination seating/crimping die, they do just fine for these rounds. I have the Lee Factory Crimp Die, but it's rare that I actually use it. The combo seating/crimp die does a mighty fine job on its own.

BTW, any reason you don't want to shoot cast bullets? I shoot thousands of 'em a year through my guns, and they just love 'em. And I save a lot of money by doing so.

[opos]

Many thanks for the info...I figured the standard roll crimp was the ticket...as to the lead situation...I've got very serious lung problems and shooting anything is a bit "iffy" for me to begin with but I'm not about to give up "everything" at my older age....when I shoot indoors (which is almost all the time) I shoot with a particulate mask ...makes quite a specticle with a 240# man with ear muffs and a mask...few ask many questions...chuckle...I don't want to further complicate things with the possibility of lead fumes or particles....My loading is just to tailor loads and have something more to do in the hobby..it isn't about the cost...I used to reload clear back in the 50's and 60's when I did a lot of bench rest shooting and hunting in Colorado but today it's more just to make something go bang and get out with some friends...again thanks for the input...roll crimp it is and I'll just "test" the amount of roll to see what works the best....as to what loads...I think I'll leave any comments about loads to something like the Speer manual, etc.....what works for me might not work so well for others...that's the kind of thing I probably woulnd't be comfortable putting on the web.

[Cowboy T]

Sorry to hear about the lung problems. I've seen others with, for example, emphysema and it doesn't look fun. But if you've got a particulate mask already, you wouldn't have any problems with cast bullet particles. Wouldn't the lead styphnate primer compound would be more of a concern?

BTW...you used to reload for bench rest? That's seriously precision stuff there. You probably know more about reloading by now than I will in a couple of lifetimes.

[opos]

Sorry to hear about the lung problems. I've seen others with, for example, emphysema and it doesn't look fun. But if you've got a particulate mask already, you wouldn't have any problems with cast bullet particles. Wouldn't the lead styphnate primer compound would be more of a concern?

BTW...you used to reload for bench rest? That's seriously precision stuff there. You probably know more about reloading by now than I will in a couple of lifetimes.

In the 50's we were dealing with converted K98 Mauser actions, Douglas barrels, Timney triggers..we shot things like 220 Swift, 22 Hornet, 25-06 and the like...I had an Ackley improved 06 and was the hottest thing in town for a while.....nothing like the precision of today...just like the old days with cars...we looked for 0-60 in 10 seconds....my wife has a car that will do 0-60 in about 5 seconds...and it's the grocery getter...just under MOA was the big goal in those days...all outdoors on pretty primative ranges...

I'm just not really comfortable with any more lead than what is in the primers, etc...for example I use vinyl gloves when I clean the guns so I don't have my hands in lead or lead residue.....and I still screw up and forget and wipe my nose , etc....I'm dealing with one lung (lost the use due to an accident), COPD and Asthema...I probably ought to just go fishing but there's lead in sinkers too....no, I'm pretty comfortable the way I do things...I normally go to the range on mornings when they first open...during the week...I'm frequently alone or with one or two others so not a lot of stuff in the air...the range where I shoot has really good filters and it's an air in and air out system that doesn't recirculate the inside air...seems to be pretty much ok...I may shoot some lead down the line but for now I'm happy spending my Social Security money on a hobby...if there is any SSI in the future....

Thanks again all
opos

[z-bob]

Last year I did some experiments with Berry's bullets in .38 Special. I crimped some with a roll crimp and some with a taper crimp (using a 9mm die.) The taper crimped rounds looked better; with the roll crimped ones, the bullets were distorted a little. But the roll crimps were noticeably more accurate anyway. (I sure didn't expect that)

When I roll crimp plated bullets, I crimp just enough to bite into the copper a little but not cut thru it. If you pull one of the bullets you should see a mark made by the case mouth. Hope this helps.

[bjl333]

My old RCBS carbide dies does roll and a loaded boolit (cartridge) comes out !!! The roll crimp has serve me for the last 30+yrs in a revolver. Your die set is just fine, same as mine.

30+ years seem so yesterday now !!! 1950s wow, not even a swimmer yet !!

[sequoia_nomad]

I have wondered about this myself. Rcbs does sell carbide 3 die sets in 38/357 that come with a taper crimp die. It is listed on their website, item#18215:

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&screenlabel=index&action=CategoryDisplay&categoryId=C09J043N143&route=C09.C09J043

I've always been curious what exactly the purpose of this die set is. I've heard they're better for lever action tube feeds, but I've had great success with a standard roll crimp. And I can't imagine there are enough Desert Eagles in existence to justify Rcbs marketing a set of dies just for them. Any ideas?

[opos]

I have wondered about this myself. Rcbs does sell carbide 3 die sets in 38/357 that come with a taper crimp die. It is listed on their website, item#18215:

https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&screenlabel=index&action=CategoryDisplay&categoryId=C09J043N143&route=C09.C09J043

I've always been curious what exactly the purpose of this die set is. I've heard they're better for lever action tube feeds, but I've had great success with a standard roll crimp. And I can't imagine there are enough Desert Eagles in existence to justify Rcbs marketing a set of dies just for them. Any ideas?

Z-bob's comment about using a 9mm taper crimp on some plated bullets might be something to consider.....maybe RCBS realizes lots of folks use the plated bullets and make a taper die for that application as well as for a long gun application....hard to tell. I think I'll shoot them a e mail and ask..they are great folks for customer service.

[ireload]

Opos sorry to hear about your lung condition also. But have you considered using a "welder's" respirator. Some what similar to a N95 but filters not only particulate but also welding fumes.

Also you mentioned about primers. PMC sells the "green" primers that is more shooter friendly in terms of the nasty it discharges. You pay a bit more but worth considering when you shoot often in a indoor range. Check Midway, Natchez, Graf and Son, and Wiedner's

[opos]

Opos sorry to hear about your lung condition also. But have you considered using a "welder's" respirator. Some what similar to a N95 but filters not only particulate but also welding fumes.

Also you mentioned about primers. PMC sells the "green" primers that is more shooter friendly in terms of the nasty it discharges. You pay a bit more but worth considering when you shoot often in a indoor range. Check Midway, Natchez, Graf and Son, and Wiedner's

Thanks for that...The welders mask was suggested by the doc as a pretty good option and I'm going to go that way...3M has one for about $6 that looks like is isn't too much more offensive than a regular particle mask and might just be the ticket...I don't want to over state the case...if I felt I was really at immediate risk the guns would get sold and I'd be doing something else...I'm just very cautious....I live where there is a huge amount of pollution in the air, dust a lot from Santa Ana winds (it was 105 where I live yestertay with lots of crap in the air)....I just try to pace myself and not shoot when the range is full and stay off the roads when there is a lot of traffic and the air is really foul...Seems to be working and has for some time...I'd heard about the primers and I'm going to see about getting my hands on a small quantity to try.

I'm from the generation of lead paints on kids cribs for them to chew on, siphoning leaded gas from the neighbor's car when I needed a "fill up" and air full of lead from industry and leaded gas. I do have annual tests for lots of things including lead and so far no problems. I've been shooting a long time...first gun was a Model 62 Winchester pump 22 that I got in 1946 or 47 to "learn with "....Used to shoot a .30 Luger in the range in the basement of the police building in Fort Collins, Colorado with no hearing protection and no lung considerations...deaf you say? Just a bit. I'm getting to the far side of the life span and just don't want to quit shooting or the things that go along with it.