.223 vs. .308

[-hanko]

completely understandable...however you don't have to cop such an attitude when saying it. Don't you think i already know to google it. Done already, however its nice to get an experienced and friendly opinion.

Trod22, smilies indicate my reply was somewhat tongue-in-cheek. The attitude you sensed is not what I intended to impart.

Reading the first post, with excellent questions btw, I can't tell if you searched or not before starting the thead. If you'd indicated you'd searched & still had some concerns/confusion over the answers you found, I'd have had a little more clarity.

Sorry about not answering the 'price' queston...currently, pricing is absolutely repulsive for either caliber. Consider either reloading if you have the time and like to shoot a LOT, or finding something in Russian 5.45mm as that's about the only rifle caliber with some semblance of reasonable pricing. If you find a good deal on ammo, buy a BUNCH and buy it ASAP.

Take care

-hanko

[ocabj]

1. Difference in recoil? A lot.
2. Difference in price? Quite a bit.
3. Difference in accuracy? None if you use the right bullets in the right barrel.
4. Difference in maximum distance? For the average shooter, quite a bit.

I don't know what wasn't proper about my response to the question.

My answers are 100% correct without all the fluff.

1. Difference in recoil? A lot. This is true. In a bolt gun, 223 is going to kick a lot less than 308. Same with a semi-auto. As far as quantifying it any further, there's no point in doing so. A person is better off asking someone at the range to get behind a .223 and .308 for a few rounds each.

2. Difference in price? Quite a bit. This is true. Go to any online vendor's website that sells both 223 Remington and 308 Winchester ammo and you're going to see the price difference is quite a bit.

3. Difference in accuracy? None if you use the right bullets in the right barrel. This is true. Frankly, this is true for nearly every cartridge whether it be .223 Remington, .308 Winchester, .22-250, .243, .30-06, .260, .270, .284, 6.5x55, 7.5x55, .338, .300, etc. Give me any off the shelf rifle with a non-defective barrel, and I'll get it to shoot with good accuracy after I get dies, brass, and decent bullets. For the most part, every cartridge is accurate. Whether or not the gun is, is another question. But assuming you have good test rifles in both cartridges (.223 and .308), and they'll both probably shoot under 1MOA at 100 yards with no problems. To me, 1MOA is accurate.

4. Difference in maximum distance? For the average shooter, quite a bit. This is true. For the average shooter, the .308 will give beter performance as target distance increases. But a good shooter will be able to shoot .223 out to 1000 yards (with the right bullet in a good barrel). If you look at my second response with reference to the Farr Trophy, shooters have had excellent success using .223 with 80gr bullets in 20" service rifle AR15s to compete in the NRA 1000 yard service rifle match (Farr Trophy), and the AR15 has even won the trophy (over the M1 and M14, .30-06 or .308). If you look at the BC of the 175gr SMK, it's around .495. But the 80gr VLD by Berger has a BC of .471. Not much of a disadvantage. A good shooter that can read wind will be able to shoot the 80gr in .223 at 1000 yards very successfully.

So there's my reasoning behind my original answers, but with the fluff.

[Bongos]

Practical efficiency
5.56 = 300-400 yards
.243 = 300-600 yards
.308 = 300-800 yards

The above is just based on premium factory ammo, if you reload, you can dail in the most for your caliber... I'm not so I buy off the shelf even surplus sometimes
I settled on the .243 the recoils is not enough to get off sight picture, so like the 5.56 I can see target hit placement..me likes

[proraptor]

Go .308 you wont regret it

[radioactivelego]

80gr will make it to 1000 yards out of a 20" barrel.

Is it going at fragmentation velocities, though?

[anotherted]

completely understandable...however you don't have to cop such an attitude when saying it.

Welcome to the wonderful world of internet gun boards.

[ocabj]

Is it going at fragmentation velocities, though?

I don't know. I'm not familiar with fragmentation properties of any bullet.

I'm concerned about hitting the target.

The context of this .223 vs .308 topic didn't indicate if the 'neutralization' of a (living) target is important.

[guimus]

Probably going about 1200 fps at 1000, well below fragmentation velocity.

[Fjold]

Probably going about 1200 fps at 1000, well below fragmentation velocity.

All of the 22 caliber 80 grain bullets are match bullets and not designed to fragment.

Hornady say that a 223 can get the 80 grain Berger VLD up to 2850 fps at the muzzle and JBM says that at 1000 yards the bullet would still be going 1,700 fps.

[Ryan HBC]

+1 to help yourself.

Welcome to the internet. =)

[Teletiger7]

2700 fps is the reliably fragments speed for M193.
between 2500-2700 fps is the sometimes fragments speed for M193.
Below that velocity it probably won't fragment.

[jdberger]

Let's step back a bit.

1911whore and Trod1222,

All of us were newbies at some point. Some of us weren't even lucky enough to KNOW anyone that owned a gun until we were much older. But what I think you are seeing with the smartass answers is a bit of disdain for people who won't do even a modicum of research.

I figured out that I liked guns early on. I read everything I could get my hands on, including the dictionary and encyclopedia entries. I wasn't even 10 when I could tell the difference between a S&W and a Colt revolver - and I'd only seen them in pictures.

When I was finally able to live on my own, I bought or had a subscription to just about every major gun rag out there. Anyone wanna guess what the second favorite gun rag topic is after "9mm vs .45"? (NB: the .40S&W wasn't invented yet).

Finally, I didn't know squat about California gun law when I first moved here. So I joined this forum. And I lurked. I watched 50Freak's avatar and I read everything I could find so that when I finally did open my mouth I would at least seem like I respected the other forum members enough to not waste their time with silly and easily answered questions.

Yes, I know that "search is your friend" but sometimes it is a PITA to use.
Yes, I know that everyone is a newbie once.
Yes, I know that some of the old men on this site are a little harsh on the FNGs -

But, at least show us the respect of TRYING a simple search of your question first....or realize that there is much wisdom in listening more than you talk and ask questions.



FWIW, I've been told to search multiple times and even had someone ask me if I knew what Wikipedia was.....

Finally, TRod12222, welcome to the forum. We warm up pretty quick....