Reloading Question! Help needed

[Chaseb92]

Caliber: 9mm
Bullet: Bear Creek Supply TC 125gr
Powder Charge: 4.5gr CFE Pistol
Primer: CCI 500
Col: I?ve talked to beer creek about seating depth of their bullets. They say they don?t measure, simply load the bullet so the bearing surfaces are completely seated in the case. I did this, I?m at 1.088. Chambers fine in the three guns listed.

Guns:
Smith&wesson m&p shield 9 (shoots fine)
Glock 43x (shoots fine)
Glock 19 (key holing 1/10 rounds per mag with two different barrels; cmc and Wilson combat)

I?m not sure where to go from here. I started with replacing the cmc barrel since it?s seen quite a few rounds with a new Wilson combat but I?m getting the same results. BCS is very helpful and told me to tinker with the load because it could just be too hot of a load for these aftermarket barrels and I guess the tighter tolerances are over stressing the bullet? But the lee book says 4.4 is minimum load so I?m only a 1/10th grain above minimum. I can switch to 231 but I run into the issue where my bullet profile and col is closer to like a Hornady xtp. Could I use xtp data for lead if it?s lower than the lead data? Here?s what hogdon says for example?

Hornady hap 125g
Col 1.069
Winchester 231 2.8gr - 3.3gr

Lead 125gr
Col 1.125
Winchester 231 3.9gr - 4.4gr

So like I said I?m kinda in between these lengths. I don?t have a chrono but the current load feels similar to my federal hst with the cfe pistol I have loaded up. Which is why I?m looking at switching powders since I?m close to minimum charge according to the lee manual but now I?m not sure what to do with the above data because I?d like to load around 3.5 of 231 because it makes sense to me in my uneducated brain but I?m never one to load anything outside of what the book says.

[croue]

Is the Glock 19 a polygonal rifling barrel?

I?ve heard (no personal experience) that some lead bullets have a challenge in polygonal rifling.


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[G38xOC]

Do u happen to have factory barrel u can test out of

[Chaseb92]

Is the Glock 19 a polygonal rifling barrel?

I?ve heard (no personal experience) that some lead bullets have a challenge in polygonal rifling.


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Here?s the two descriptions of each barrel from where I bought it from. I don?t see polygonal anywhere. As far as what I can see all my barrels look the same to me it?s flat grooves protruding that spiral around the bore.

CMC?s Match Precision Barrels

The Ultimate Upgrade for Gen 3 & 4 Glock? 19 Pistols.

Precision Machined from Certified Pre-Hardened 416R Premium Grade Stainless Steel
Stress Relieved After Rifling for Hardness of 38-42 Rockwell C Prior to Machining Completion
Double Honed to Produce the Smoothest Bore Possible with a Max RA of 12
SAAMI, Match Grade specification chambers, precision cut and finished to a maximum RA of 16
6 Groove Cut Rifled to create consistent 1:10 Twist
Enhanced Slide Fit & Lock Up for Improved Accuracy
Straight Fluted for Aesthetics
QC Inspected
Drop-In ? Gunsmith not Required
Rated for +P Ammo Use

Elevate your performance to its highest potential with the superior Wilson Combat stainless drop-in Glock 19 9mm match-grade barrel. Precision crafted from aircraft grade stainless steel and R/C 40 heat treated for durability, these barrels have critical manufacturing tolerances held to less than .0005", guaranteeing a precise fit. With a 1:16 twist broach rifling, you can expect pinpoint accuracy up to 2" or less at 25 yards with quality ammunition. Compatible with generation 3, 4, and 5 Glock 19 handguns, upgrade your sidearm with the Wilson Combat stainless drop-in Glock 19 9mm match-grade barrel for superior performance when it matters most!

And here?s the Wilson combat, this one says broach rifling. I went with the Wilson for the 1:16 twist because I heard that can also help work out some issues.

Caliber: 9mm
Model: Glock 19
Compatible with Gen 3, Gen 4, and Gen 5 Glock pistols
Match-grade accuracy (2" or less at 25 yards with quality ammo)
1 in 16" twist conventional broach rifling will accept lead, jacketed, or plated bullets without fear of pressure spikes caused by polygonal rifling
Fully machined from 416R stainless steel
Heat-treated to R/C 40 for maximum service life
Critical manufacturing tolerances are held to less than .0005" (One-half thousandth of an inch)
Glass smooth chamber and perfectly concentric with the bore
External chamber corners are chamfered to reduce friction
Can obtain 1/2" groups in our barrel test fixture

[Chaseb92]

Do u happen to have factory barrel u can test out of

Unfortunately no I don?t. Wish I did!

[croue]

Keyholing is generally a sign of inadequate stabilization.

If the bullets stabilize in the other barrels - time to check on how the lead is engaging the suspect barrels.

Check for leading first.
Check the bore diameter (major diameter at the depth of the grooves) and make sure the lead is obturating because it?s larger than that just a touch or they?re not so hard they aren?t expanding enough to obtirate with your load. It?s possible your loads not hot enough.

C


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[Sandspider500]

What brass did you use and did you use a lee fcd?

[Chaseb92]

Keyholing is generally a sign of inadequate stabilization.

If the bullets stabilize in the other barrels - time to check on how the lead is engaging the suspect barrels.

Check for leading first.
Check the bore diameter (major diameter at the depth of the grooves) and make sure the lead is obturating because it?s larger than that just a touch or they?re not so hard they aren?t expanding enough to obtirate with your load. It?s possible your loads not hot enough.

C


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I?m not sure I?m measuring right but I?m getting .355 with digital calipers at the end of the cmc barrel. I know the bcs bullets are sized at .356 and my caliper confirms that. I?ve never noticed leading but I?ve also never seen it in person. I definitely don?t have smudges or smears of lead in the grooves or anything. To me it does look a little dirtier than factory rounds but I always figured that was because I?m shooting moly coated lead? Maybe I?ll have to get a good picture after a range day since I already cleaned them. Not hot enough??? That?s interesting I was worried about the shorter col bumping up pressures but again I?m really not sure how all that works.

[Sandspider500]

Lyman loads the 356402 120gr bullet to 1.11, lets assume all the brass is .751. The 356402 is .623 long, that means it's seated .264 deep. A lee 356 125 tc I cast is .585 long and I load to a OAL of 1.085, this leaves a small amount of shoulder above the case mouth. It seats at .251 inside the case.

Hodgdon has a cfe pistol load with a 125gr LCN(lead conical nose) which I think is actually the Lyman 356402. At 1.125 it would have .249 seated inside the case.

Description: 356 124tc 4.2gr cfe pistol
Notes 1: 1.085 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 127.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
15 1060 316.91 134.62
14 1034 301.55 131.32
13 1047 309.18 132.97
12 1038 303.89 131.83
11 1058 315.71 134.37
10 1019 292.87 129.41
9 1038 303.89 131.83
8 1007 286.01 127.89
7 1037 303.30 131.70
6 1044 307.41 132.59
5 1009 287.15 128.14
4 1005 284.87 127.64
3 1004 284.31 127.51
2 1029 298.64 130.68
1 1009 287.15 128.14
Average: 1029.20
StdDev: 19.25
Min: 1004
Max: 1060
Spread: 56
True MV: 1030.37

Hodgdon load is start a 4.4gr for 1041 at around 27k psi.

Description: 9mm 124 tc
Notes 1: 5gr cfe pistol 1.085 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 127.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
9 1154 375.60 146.56
8 1125 356.96 142.88
7 1169 385.43 148.46
6 1139 365.90 144.65
5 1172 387.41 148.84
4 1132 361.42 143.76
3 1144 369.12 145.29
2 1162 380.83 147.57
1 1110 347.51 140.97
Average: 1145.22
StdDev: 20.93
Min: 1110
Max: 1172
Spread: 62
True MV: 1146.52

Hodgdon load is 5gr for 1156fps at 33k psi

[Chaseb92]

What brass did you use and did you use a lee fcd?

Mixed once fired range brass.

I used a Dillon square deal b for my first batch. Switched to rcbs after that using the seat and crimp to only seat and then crimp with lee fcd. About an 1/8th turn after contact got the flare out and .379 at the case mouth.

[jsanch03]

You have several things you need to do to narrow down what is causing the issue. Keyholing with lead or coated bullets generally has to do with obturation of the bullet as it travels down the bore of the barrel. Obturation is simply the base of the bullet creates a seal towards the base against the rifling as the gases push the bullet down the barrel. This seal also prevents leading as well. Bring out your calipers and measure the bullet prior to seating it. Most coated bullets including the bullets I cast and coat are sized to .356 diameter. I?ve shot thousands of my bullets through glocks, smith and Wesson, sig and my buddy?s beretta 92fs without leading or keyholing. Sometimes manufacturers of coated bullets have some lots of bullets that measure below .355 ( typical 9mm diameter). If the diameter of the bullet is smaller then the barrel it is not going to grab the rifling of the barrel which then destabilizes the bullet as it exits.

If you?re not flaring the case enough it?s possible the bullet is getting swagged when you seat or crimp the bullet. Now, there?s an argument regarding the use of the Lee FCD and I?ll tell you that I use it without issue. Google search what an M die is (Lyman makes one) it not only flares but creates a little pocket a bit further down in the case then a normal flaring die. This allows for better seating and preventing any swagging.

[Sandspider500]

If you're using mixed brass, you probably used some cbc cases, then you used a lee fcd and swaged your bullet. Go shoot again but only shoot the loads where you used pmc, fc, Blazer, gfl, o Winchester. I bet your 1 out of 10 tumblers from the g19 will go away. I think it was luck you didn't fire any in the other pistols.

[Sandspider500]

This is a bullet that had been loaded in a cbc brass case and then a lee fcd was used. You can see where it squeezed the bullet. After it had been crimped with the lee die I could spin the bullet in the case and pulled it right out with my fingers. Just use your seating die to crimp or buy a taper crimp die. Dont use CBC brass.

[Chaseb92]

Lyman loads the 356402 120gr bullet to 1.11, lets assume all the brass is .751. The 356402 is .623 long, that means it's seated .264 deep. A lee 356 125 tc I cast is .585 long and I load to a OAL of 1.085, this leaves a small amount of shoulder above the case mouth. It seats at .251 inside the case.

Hodgdon has a cfe pistol load with a 125gr LCN(lead conical nose) which I think is actually the Lyman 356402. At 1.125 it would have .249 seated inside the case.

Description: 356 124tc 4.2gr cfe pistol
Notes 1: 1.085 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 127.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
15 1060 316.91 134.62
14 1034 301.55 131.32
13 1047 309.18 132.97
12 1038 303.89 131.83
11 1058 315.71 134.37
10 1019 292.87 129.41
9 1038 303.89 131.83
8 1007 286.01 127.89
7 1037 303.30 131.70
6 1044 307.41 132.59
5 1009 287.15 128.14
4 1005 284.87 127.64
3 1004 284.31 127.51
2 1029 298.64 130.68
1 1009 287.15 128.14
Average: 1029.20
StdDev: 19.25
Min: 1004
Max: 1060
Spread: 56
True MV: 1030.37

Hodgdon load is start a 4.4gr for 1041 at around 27k psi.

Description: 9mm 124 tc
Notes 1: 5gr cfe pistol 1.085 oal
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 127.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
9 1154 375.60 146.56
8 1125 356.96 142.88
7 1169 385.43 148.46
6 1139 365.90 144.65
5 1172 387.41 148.84
4 1132 361.42 143.76
3 1144 369.12 145.29
2 1162 380.83 147.57
1 1110 347.51 140.97
Average: 1145.22
StdDev: 20.93
Min: 1110
Max: 1172
Spread: 62
True MV: 1146.52

Hodgdon load is 5gr for 1156fps at 33k psi

Wow that?s a lot thanks for the info. I measure the bcs bullets at .606 in length. So I?m guessing you add the .606+.751 to get 1.357 and then subtract my oal 1.088 to get .269. So the measurement from the bottom of my bullet to the bottom inside of my case is smaller/ has less volume right than your example? Could that difference be what?s causing issues if I?m getting higher pressures? I do know that this lead is on the softer side so could the fact that I?m over 1000fps be a problem? Because it?s strange to me that I?m in the middle of what your book says as far as powder charges.

[Sandspider500]

No, not at 4.5gr, you should be fine pressure wise. Are the bear creek bullets molly coated? If they are then the powder charge can be bumped up a little. Like I said before, I think you may have squeezed a few bullets in thick brass.