Reloading for .38 SPL

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[sigstroker]

Post pic of loaded rounds.

I doubt 70 fps is possible.

[ar15barrels]

Bullets spinning is often from over-crimping.
When you over crimp, you push down on the case mouth too much and squeeze the bullet down and it tends to loosen the bullet in the neck at the same time that it folds the case into the cannelure.
So what you end up with is a bullet that can spin in the case because the brass springs back open as the crimped round comes out of the crimp die but the bullet stays squeezed smaller because lead yields much easier than brass.
If you pull one of those bullets and measure it's diameter, I bet that it's smaller in diameter than the other bullets are before they are crimped.

[pacrat]

That's basically what's happening in a nutshell. The projos can be twisted with light force in many cases and pushed or pulled with relative ease. Now to be clear...the projectiles say .357 on the box, so how could the dies be set up wrong?

Velocity discrepancies, and loose bullets. 2 issues. Unrelated.

If they had actually been doing 60-70fps. Split the diff and check more relatable data. Do the math, @65fps. is 44.3 mph. So with certain atmospheric conditions. YES, you could see the bullets in flight. As a matter of fact you could save components and just THROW the damn things.

As to the loose bullet issue. Disassemble your deprime/expander stem from the die. And measure the expander, and the bullets. There should be a minimum of .001" difference in diameters. For a good interference fit. Most pistol die sets leave more. But anything over .004" is detrimental IMHO.

Sizing dies actually make cases slightly undersize. Then the expander does just that. It expands the neck area for proper bullet fit.

If you aren't getting at least .001" interference fit. You can spin the expander in a drill motor and wrap some wet dry sandpaper around it to reduce it incrementally. CAUTION, a little is a LOT when doing this. Don't overdo it.

And if you are going to shoot bullets of varying diameters in same caliber. Just get another expander stem and switch them as needed.

JM2c ....


ETA... AR-15 posted while I was typing. As he said, overcrimping is also detrimental.

[eaglemike]

Just for fun, try some coated lead. Bear Creek is popular and good quality. Lots of other stuff out there. American Reloading is almost always having specials, they have some decent .38/,357 jacketed stuff pretty cheap.
Some of us have seen issues with plated bullets. The quality can be all over the place. I've seen them use dead soft lead to plate, and then if any crimp is applied they distort and are still loose in the case.

[JagerDog]

It would have to be going much quicker and then slow down from bore friction.
If the charges are accurately measured as he said he was weighing charges, it's just not going to happen with titegroup.
Titegroup is tolerant of lots of air space in a case without having a problem with flashover ignition.
I seriously doubt 60-70 was an accurate chrono reading though.
Most likelihood is that they were full power and didn't read accurately.

Ya. Just saying 70 fps is dang near stopped. A bit more barrel and I imagine it wouldn't exit.

[JagerDog]

It would have to be going much quicker and then slow down from bore friction.
If the charges are accurately measured as he said he was weighing charges, it's just not going to happen with titegroup.
Titegroup is tolerant of lots of air space in a case without having a problem with flashover ignition.
I seriously doubt 60-70 was an accurate chrono reading though.
Most likelihood is that they were full power and didn't read accurately.

Ya. Just saying 70 fps is dang near stopped. A bit more barrel and I imagine it wouldn't exit.

And ya, I suspect a chrono error. Lighting plays yuge.

[Supersapper]

I am doing the exact same thing, putting a snub nose 38 on my CCW, and reloading a bunch of practice rounds.

Your bullets being lose are twisting is the #1 problem I've worked to flush out.

I'm finding a solid wall (no cannelure) plated (economical) and longer bullet makes for better case friction.

The worst bullets I've worked with are these 95gn poly coated things with a cannelure, and all the problems you describe.

Best results are with 115-125gn plated with no cannelure.

I've also been using a faster powder if only as a function from a lack of barrel length. There is basically no barrel length to continue ignition and pressure.

I'm not trying to be Dirty Harry here, and am loading just enough powder that complete ignition happens and I'm not dealing with unburnt powder jamming things up. It still gives a pretty good pop out of a 2 inch barrel.

Actually...you are kind of in Dirty Harry company. In the movie Magnum Force, he explains the rounds he uses as being "light specials", likely referring to .44 Special, rather than the .44 Magnum. So he's using light loads too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g60JlUPbKt8 go to 1:10 and watch.

Anyway...I use Titegroup, which is probably the faster of the burning powders. As mentioned, I'm using 158 grain projos, so there's plenty of contact surface. As others mentioned, I may just need to check measurements on the dies and report back. I'll just have to see.

[Supersapper]

Velocity discrepancies, and loose bullets. 2 issues. Unrelated.

If they had actually been doing 60-70fps. Split the diff and check more relatable data. Do the math, @65fps. is 44.3 mph. So with certain atmospheric conditions. YES, you could see the bullets in flight. As a matter of fact you could save components and just THROW the damn things.

As to the loose bullet issue. Disassemble your deprime/expander stem from the die. And measure the expander, and the bullets. There should be a minimum of .001" difference in diameters. For a good interference fit. Most pistol die sets leave more. But anything over .004" is detrimental IMHO.

Sizing dies actually make cases slightly undersize. Then the expander does just that. It expands the neck area for proper bullet fit.

If you aren't getting at least .001" interference fit. You can spin the expander in a drill motor and wrap some wet dry sandpaper around it to reduce it incrementally. CAUTION, a little is a LOT when doing this. Don't overdo it.

And if you are going to shoot bullets of varying diameters in same caliber. Just get another expander stem and switch them as needed.

JM2c ....


ETA... AR-15 posted while I was typing. As he said, overcrimping is also detrimental.

Ya...when I saw the readings I thought I about did just throw it. I actually did start to watch to see if I could actually see it.

A couple of people noted the use of the expander. This might be of some import here, but I did not use an expander. Since I was using a single stage, I used the dipper and a pan to pour the powder into the case after weighing each powder "throw", set the projo on it and carefully used the bullet seating die to press in the bullet...I didn't skip this step on 9mm, but I noted that the projos seated very easily without, I say again, without any shaved material.

I'm beginning to think that the resizing die may be resizing to .357 figuring I'm using .358 bullets (giving me the .001 friction fit others have mentioned). Problem is the bullets themselves are .357 diameter, so now I have something new to measure I guess.

[Supersapper]

Just for fun, try some coated lead. Bear Creek is popular and good quality. Lots of other stuff out there. American Reloading is almost always having specials, they have some decent .38/,357 jacketed stuff pretty cheap.
Some of us have seen issues with plated bullets. The quality can be all over the place. I've seen them use dead soft lead to plate, and then if any crimp is applied they distort and are still loose in the case.

Something to consider. I've had great results with Berry's for 9mm, I thought I wouldn't have any issues with their .38.

I'll have to check them out.

[ar15barrels]

I actually did start to watch to see if I could actually see it.

If you are shooting with the sun behind you, it's common to be able to see the bullet in flight.

If the sun is illuminating the back of the bullet, you are also going to get chronograph problems because the sun is not shining DOWN into the chronograph well enough to make readable shadows for the sensors to catch.

[SandDiegoDuner]

The loose bullets might be a result from using wad cutter brass. Some of the manufacturers use thinner walled brass for wad cutters as the bullet is designed to sit almost flush with the case mouth.

[BeFrank]

The loose bullets might be a result from using wad cutter brass. Some of the manufacturers use thinner walled brass for wad cutters as the bullet is designed to sit almost flush with the case mouth.

I have found some brass that doesn't hold the bullet as well, I try to separate by headstamp and also by where and how many additional crimp marks are on the brass below the mouth.

[pacrat]

A couple of people noted the use of the expander. This might be of some import here, but I did not use an expander.

Just for clarity .... But you did size the cases?

If this is the case. I suggest you assuredly measure the bullets. Possibly you got some .355s labeled as .357. Wouldn't be the first time.

JM2c

[Supersapper]

Just for clarity .... But you did size the cases?

If this is the case. I suggest you assuredly measure the bullets. Possibly you got some .355s labeled as .357. Wouldn't be the first time.

JM2c

I did size the casings. Now that is an interesting concept. I'm going to redo a batch of .38s, so I'll do that and let you know.