.300 savage?

[stonefly-2]

The warnings are simply based on how close you are to max pressure.
Since 3031 is too bulky, it pressure-limits itself below the warning thresholds because I use 102% as my limit when choosing a powder.

Max pressure is 52,939 PSI for the 300 savage.
47,000 CUP is right around 53,000 PSI.
That's takes into account what guns the cartridge COULD be fired in.
Some guns may have an ability to be loaded even higher pressure but I worked to the "known safe" pressure level of 52,939.

The "ideal" load makes the most velocity, fills the case 100%, consumes 100% of the powder before the bullet leaves and creates the least pressure.

Here is a powder chooser to 44,997 that does not throw any comments:

Cartridge          : .300 Savage
Bullet             : .308, 110, Barnes TTSX 30362
Useable Case Capaci: 46.473 grain H2O = 3.017 cm?
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.600 inch = 66.04 mm
Barrel Length      : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 44997 psi, or 310 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 102 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

41 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant AR-Comp                    100.3     41.6     2.69    2966    99.5    44997    8178   0.951
Accurate 2495                      102.0     42.7     2.77    2931    97.1    44239    8560   0.993
Accurate 2520                      100.1     45.2     2.93    2915    93.0    44997    8391   0.968
Winchester 748                      96.3     44.4     2.88    2914    91.5    44997    8385   0.957
Hodgdon BL-C2                       99.3     46.4     3.01    2910    90.1    44997    8497   0.962
Hodgdon CFE223                      98.1     46.8     3.04    2898    88.2    44997    8440   0.958
Hodgdon H322                        96.5     40.1     2.60    2898    95.4    44997    8018   0.954
Hodgdon H335                        91.2     42.6     2.76    2891    94.0    44997    8113   0.965
Norma 202                          101.3     42.7     2.77    2890    94.1    44997    8139   0.970
Alliant Reloder-10x                 93.5     37.8     2.45    2883    98.4    44997    7789   0.973
SNPE Vectan SP 10                   90.4     41.4     2.68    2882    93.9    44997    8062   0.971
Hodgdon H4895                      100.1     42.9     2.78    2880    89.3    44997    8256   0.971
Ramshot Wild Boar                   98.6     45.1     2.92    2872    88.0    44997    8167   0.965
IMR 3031                           102.0     40.8     2.65    2869    95.0    40836    8286   0.992
Norma 200                           89.7     37.6     2.44    2865    98.9    44997    7664   0.997
Accurate 2015                       96.6     39.6     2.56    2863    97.7    44997    7703   0.985
SNPE Vectan SP 9                   101.0     44.7     2.90    2862    88.1    44997    8079   0.966
Vihtavuori N530                     96.2     41.4     2.69    2862    90.6    44997    8010   0.969
Alliant Reloder-12                  95.9     41.9     2.71    2860    95.4    44997    7761   0.962
IMR 4895                           102.0     43.7     2.83    2854    87.4    42579    8329   0.986
Accurate 2460                       94.5     43.6     2.82    2853    91.9    44997    7979   0.986

Ok, I see the 47,000/53,000 thing......not looking to go a lot lower on pressure just confused.

Does the case capacity that you are factoring %102 of take into account displacement by the bullet?

Is compressing the load something of a warning track beyond which things can go exponential pressure wise?

What is the relationship between powder charge and accuracy?

Is my assumption basically correct that it's the effect the charge may have on a particular gun that determines accuracy? nodes n such?

It's said for instance that the Swede likes a little slower powder.

I guess that's true RL-22 being pretty much the baseline standard but the rifles themselves are a long for caliber bullet with a fast rifling twist rate compared to others.

Thinking the effect of that may result in the burning powder being contained by a "stickier" bullet.

Wanting to check that my plan is sound here,

establish a threshold low press. x speed load then incrementally reduce it trying to reveal the most accurate charge weight?

Using grains of water (a weight) as a constant to quantify the available space a given powder might occupy......that powder weight limited by it's "bulkiness".

This is the idea that you can fill a bucket with gravel, fill it again with sand and again with water? "bulky" yes?



Gee, not just being able to pick a recipe and give it a try is a little different but that's what I asked for and thanks for your assistance.

others too.

[kcstott]

Ok, I see the 47,000/53,000 thing......not looking to go a lot lower on pressure just confused.

Does the case capacity that you are factoring %102 of take into account displacement by the bullet?

Quickload takes the maximum case capacity in grains of water at over flow and subtracts the volume occupied by the seated bullet this gives a usable case capacity.

Is compressing the load something of a warning track beyond which things can go exponential pressure wise?

What is the relationship between powder charge and accuracy?

Is my assumption basically correct that it's the effect the charge may have on a particular gun that determines accuracy? nodes n such?

It's said for instance that the Swede likes a little slower powder.

what a cartridge likes in terms of powder is based on case design. Yes accuracy is about finding a sweet spot in the pressure window for consistent velocity then tweaking that powder charge slightly to find the barrel node. That's a little more advanced than you need.

I guess that's true RL-22 being pretty much the baseline standard but the rifles themselves are a long for caliber bullet with a fast rifling twist rate compared to others.

Thinking the effect of that may result in the burning powder being contained by a "stickier" bullet.

Wanting to check that my plan is sound here,

establish a threshold low press. x speed load then incrementally reduce it trying to reveal the most accurate charge weight?

I think you are overthinking this. I do not know what you mean by a "stickier" bullet.

In simple terms the correct powder burn rate is a powder that pushes the bullet out the barrel at a desirable velocity while not exceeding breach pressure and being fully or nearly fully consumed as the bullet leaves the barrel. That last bit is what we call efficiency.
So in general we want fast burn rates for lighter bullets and slower burn rates for heavier bullets. Those would be your course adjustments in selecting powder based on burn rate. Finer adjustments in powder selection wold be based on barrel length. Longer barrels can utilise slower burning powders to build pressure over a longer period of time. shorter barrels need faster burn rates to build pressure faster before the bullet leaves the barrel.

As to your load method. it's backwards. You never start at the top and work down. you find that max suggested load (in this case 42 gr of 3031) and you work up to it.
Personally if it were me i'd load the following steps testing velocity and pressure stopping when i reach my desired velocity or if i see any signs of over pressure which is going to be hard to see for a novice. keeping velocity below 2875 fps should be a good safe max.
One round each to test powder speed
38.0
38.5
39.0
39.5
40.0
40.5
41.0
41.5
42.0
Based on the velocity of the powder charges above i'd then load five rounds or more of each of the same steps eliminating any that are far to slow or fast in velocity and any that are showing signs of overpressure. You can usually narrow this down to about three or four steps for a hunting rifle.

Using grains of water (a weight) as a constant to quantify the available space a given powder might occupy......that powder weight limited by it's "bulkiness".

This is the idea that you can fill a bucket with gravel, fill it again with sand and again with water? "bulky" yes?



Gee, not just being able to pick a recipe and give it a try is a little different but that's what I asked for and thanks for your assistance.

others too.

The water capacity in quick load is used to adjust the relative pressure the software is predicting. it can also be used as a rough comparison of differing cases bits thats it. You can not take water capacity and convert it to grains of any smokeless powder with any reasonable level of safety. Keep in mind that some powders are ball powder and are very fine and occupy a as little of the case capacity as possible and others are extruded powders that resemble very tiny grains of rice that tend to take up more space. this is exactly like your bucket example you can fill it with gravel and still have space for sand or water. thats what is meant by a bulky powder. Typically the slower the powder the larger the kernals are and the bulkier the powder is. but there are exceptions to every rule.


What I do to find a load for a hunting rifle (Read that as a non competitive rifle.) is this


Select a bullet or buulets i want to use.
Select a hand full of cases with the same head stamp about 50 will do.
Full length size them. check neck inside diameter and correct if needed. usually not an issue on a hunting round
Trim and chamfer to specified minimum length.
Build my first lot or test rounds 1-3 rounds each in the steps listed above all we are concerned with here is getting velocity.
Bullets are seated at magazine length or touch the lands and back off .020" whatever the case may be. Lever guns need to be at specified length or you may run into feeding issues.

Hit the range fire your rounds over the chrono and do not worry about group size. you could dump these in the dirt all we want is velocity data and what is th eupper end of powder charge with our components.

Go back home build more rounds. Five each after tossing out the slowest and the too fast or too hot rounds.

Go shoot these for groups over a chrono. You can look up how to shoot a ladder test. it's a hunting rifle so .5 grain steps are fine initially.

Go home find your most consistent velocity the lowest extreme spread and lowest standard deviation. You can now go shoot a group with this load and see what the rifle will do. If the groups are good enough you are done. If not you can adjust the powder charge in .1 grain steps, two steps above and below your load you picked, you may find a more consistent load this way. You may also need to do seating depth tests and that can get a little strange with magazine feed and lever guns. You have a lot of limitations on extracting the utmost in accuracy from a rifle like this. That said I don't think you will have a problem finding a load that can print 1" @ 100 yards if the barrel is in good shape and the loose nut behind the bolt can do its job.

[stonefly-2]

Quickload takes the maximum case capacity in grains of water at over flow and subtracts the volume occupied by the seated bullet this gives a usable case capacity.

Is compressing the load something of a warning track beyond which things can go exponential pressure wise?

What is the relationship between powder charge and accuracy?


what a cartridge likes in terms of powder is based on case design. Yes accuracy is about finding a sweet spot in the pressure window for consistent velocity then tweaking that powder charge slightly to find the barrel node. That's a little more advanced than you need.





I think you are overthinking this. I do not know what you mean by a "stickier" bullet.

In simple terms the correct powder burn rate is a powder that pushes the bullet out the barrel at a desirable velocity while not exceeding breach pressure and being fully or nearly fully consumed as the bullet leaves the barrel. That last bit is what we call efficiency.
So in general we want fast burn rates for lighter bullets and slower burn rates for heavier bullets. Those would be your course adjustments in selecting powder based on burn rate. Finer adjustments in powder selection wold be based on barrel length. Longer barrels can utilise slower burning powders to build pressure over a longer period of time. shorter barrels need faster burn rates to build pressure faster before the bullet leaves the barrel.

As to your load method. it's backwards. You never start at the top and work down. you find that max suggested load (in this case 42 gr of 3031) and you work up to it.
Personally if it were me i'd load the following steps testing velocity and pressure stopping when i reach my desired velocity or if i see any signs of over pressure which is going to be hard to see for a novice. keeping velocity below 2875 fps should be a good safe max.
One round each to test powder speed
38.0
38.5
39.0
39.5
40.0
40.5
41.0
41.5
42.0
Based on the velocity of the powder charges above i'd then load five rounds or more of each of the same steps eliminating any that are far to slow or fast in velocity and any that are showing signs of overpressure. You can usually narrow this down to about three or four steps for a hunting rifle.




The water capacity in quick load is used to adjust the relative pressure the software is predicting. it can also be used as a rough comparison of differing cases bits thats it. You can not take water capacity and convert it to grains of any smokeless powder with any reasonable level of safety. Keep in mind that some powders are ball powder and are very fine and occupy a as little of the case capacity as possible and others are extruded powders that resemble very tiny grains of rice that tend to take up more space. this is exactly like your bucket example you can fill it with gravel and still have space for sand or water. thats what is meant by a bulky powder. Typically the slower the powder the larger the kernals are and the bulkier the powder is. but there are exceptions to every rule.


What I do to find a load for a hunting rifle (Read that as a non competitive rifle.) is this


Select a bullet or buulets i want to use.
Select a hand full of cases with the same head stamp about 50 will do.
Full length size them. check neck inside diameter and correct if needed. usually not an issue on a hunting round
Trim and chamfer to specified minimum length.
Build my first lot or test rounds 1-3 rounds each in the steps listed above all we are concerned with here is getting velocity.
Bullets are seated at magazine length or touch the lands and back off .020" whatever the case may be. Lever guns need to be at specified length or you may run into feeding issues.

Hit the range fire your rounds over the chrono and do not worry about group size. you could dump these in the dirt all we want is velocity data and what is th eupper end of powder charge with our components.

Go back home build more rounds. Five each after tossing out the slowest and the too fast or too hot rounds.

Go shoot these for groups over a chrono. You can look up how to shoot a ladder test. it's a hunting rifle so .5 grain steps are fine initially.

Go home find your most consistent velocity the lowest extreme spread and lowest standard deviation. You can now go shoot a group with this load and see what the rifle will do. If the groups are good enough you are done. If not you can adjust the powder charge in .1 grain steps, two steps above and below your load you picked, you may find a more consistent load this way. You may also need to do seating depth tests and that can get a little strange with magazine feed and lever guns. You have a lot of limitations on extracting the utmost in accuracy from a rifle like this. That said I don't think you will have a problem finding a load that can print 1" @ 100 yards if the barrel is in good shape and the loose nut behind the bolt can do its job.

Thanks,

the working down thing was meaning shooting groups after testing that 38 though 42 didn't show any over pressure signs.

Working "up" on that of course.

I don't have a chrono or see the need for one lest I get pulled into what seems like an addiction.

The rounds cycle and chamber fine,

plenty of room @ 2.59" I'll be taking that shortcut to "hunting accuracy".

[kcstott]

Thanks,

the working down thing was meaning shooting groups after testing that 38 though 42 didn't show any over pressure signs.

Working "up" on that of course.

I don't have a chrono or see the need for one lest I get pulled into what seems like an addiction.

You should not be doing any reloading without a chrono. you'll have no clue where you are velocity wise.
With the release of the Garmin chrono Magnetospeeds and Lab radars are selling used for cheap. I'd at least pick up a Caldwell or something. you won't know if you have low capacity cases or faster lot of powder. both very critical in terms of finding out a base line of where you are.

No if that's not and option. Then you are going to throw good money after bad. I'd load up at 38 grains and call it good. that would be a good safe charge without verification from a chrono.

[ar15barrels]

Does the case capacity that you are factoring %102 of take into account displacement by the bullet?

Quickload accounts for the case volume occupied by the seated bullet.
As you adjust the overall length in quickload, quickload re-calcualtes the remaining usable case volume.

So lets say a case fit 50gr of water to the top of the neck and that the bullet occupied 5gr of water of space in the neck.
Quickload would consider 45gr to be the "available" space and 45 grains of water would be the 100% volume for that specific case/bullet/overall-length combination.

So when I use 102%, that means I am compressing the powder up to 2% which is very little.
Simply shaking/tapping the case a few times before seating a bullet will usually get the powder to settle more than 2%.

Is compressing the load something of a warning track beyond which things can go exponential pressure wise?

There's no hard and fast rule on this.
Some powders don't care about being compressed while others do.
Sticking to minimal or no compression is the safest because then we don't have to worry about finding out that a powder does not like to be heavily compressed if we are not heavily compressing the powder.

What is the relationship between powder charge and accuracy?

You adjust the powder charge to find the best accuracy.
Sometimes you go up and sometimes you go down.
No way to tell which way you will go without a baseline and then making an adjustment to compare to the baseline to see if the adjustment was helpful or hurtful.

[stonefly-2]

You should not be doing any reloading without a chrono. you'll have no clue where you are velocity wise.

Should I care?

If my incremental increases in charge weight to 42 gr. don't show any sign of an overpressure won't that box be checked for my purposes?

With the release of the Garmin chrono Magnetospeeds and Lab radars are selling used for cheap. I'd at least pick up a Caldwell or something. you won't know if you have low capacity cases or faster lot of powder. both very critical in terms of finding out a base line of where you are.

This bottle of IMR 3031 will be here when I'm gone but by low capacity cases do you mean one head stamp differing from another?

I had considered the prudence of segregating head stamps for sighting in but could one being less full than another with the same charge create a pressure issue?

No if that's not and option. Then you are going to throw good money after bad. I'd load up at 38 grains and call it good. that would be a good safe charge without verification from a chrono.

I pulled the 43 and 44 gr. loads down for being closer to the edge than I need to fool with.

Say I went through the others and had maybe a bit of primer flattening on 42 gr.......is my risk to safety here that another head stamped case might act differently with that same charge?

I mean speed is a good thing so long as I'm not showing too much pressure isn't it?

[stonefly-2]

Quickload accounts for the case volume occupied by the seated bullet.
As you adjust the overall length in quickload, quickload re-calcualtes the remaining usable case volume.

So lets say a case fit 50gr of water to the top of the neck and that the bullet occupied 5gr of water of space in the neck.
Quickload would consider 45gr to be the "available" space and 45 grains of water would be the 100% volume for that specific case/bullet/overall-length combination.

Got it.

So when I use 102%, that means I am compressing the powder up to 2% which is very little.
Simply shaking/tapping the case a few times before seating a bullet will usually get the powder to settle more than 2%.



There's no hard and fast rule on this.
Some powders don't care about being compressed while others do.
Sticking to minimal or no compression is the safest because then we don't have to worry about finding out that a powder does not like to be heavily compressed if we are not heavily compressing the powder.


That has been my thinking, didn't want to go there.


You adjust the powder charge to find the best accuracy.
Sometimes you go up and sometimes you go down.
No way to tell which way you will go without a baseline and then making an adjustment to compare to the baseline to see if the adjustment was helpful or hurtful.

It's all about the dynamic of being pushed down the barrel of a particular rifle then.

[kcstott]

I pulled the 43 and 44 gr. loads down for being closer to the edge than I need to fool with.

Say I went through the others and had maybe a bit of primer flattening on 42 gr.......is my risk to safety here that another head stamped case might act differently with that same charge?

I mean speed is a good thing so long as I'm not showing too much pressure isn't it?

Yes you should care about velocity as it's the only reliable sign of approaching doom. Since the pressure on this cartridge is lower than where brass typically begins to flow you may not see any indications of danger until it's too late. And yes there have been many instances of one lot of powder being to hot at a given charge weight even when a previous lot was fine in the same weight. every lot needs to be tested and if you are brand new to this you need to take every available precaution.

As to low volume cases. what I mean is one head stamp to the other. The internal volume of the case may be different enough to cause pressure issues. You can not be near max load and just start using a different head stamp brass. You have to back off the load and try again.

Say I went through the others and had maybe a bit of primer flattening on 42 gr.......is my risk to safety here that another head stamped case might act differently with that same charge?

This is exactly what I mean. You'd have a hot load and you use the same charge in a slightly less volume case and you spike your pressure and your rifle comes apart.

Pressure when approaching max is not linear. it is more exponential. I've done this with what I thought was a mild but near max load in a 308, i had a great shooting load in one head stamp but wanted to use Lake City brass as I had a ton of it and I didn't care if I lost a few pieces in a PRS match. The lake City brass was way under capacity and my pressures shot up so much I had to hammer the bolt open and had lost a primer or two. not to mention the primers were completely flat, zero radius between the primer and bass. it was very dangerous and I was very lucky. That load got scraped and backed off about two grains to make it safe.

[stonefly-2]

Yes you should care about velocity as it's the only reliable sign of approaching doom. Since the pressure on this cartridge is lower than where brass typically begins to flow you may not see any indications of danger until it's too late. And yes there have been many instances of one lot of powder being to hot at a given charge weight even when a previous lot was fine in the same weight. every lot needs to be tested and if you are brand new to this you need to take every available precaution.

As to low volume cases. what I mean is one head stamp to the other. The internal volume of the case may be different enough to cause pressure issues. You can not be near max load and just start using a different head stamp brass. You have to back off the load and try again.

Say I went through the others and had maybe a bit of primer flattening on 42 gr.......is my risk to safety here that another head stamped case might act differently with that same charge?

This is exactly what I mean. You'd have a hot load and you use the same charge in a slightly less volume case and you spike your pressure and your rifle comes apart.

Pressure when approaching max is not linear. it is more exponential. I've done this with what I thought was a mild but near max load in a 308, i had a great shooting load in one head stamp but wanted to use Lake City brass as I had a ton of it and I didn't care if I lost a few pieces in a PRS match. The lake City brass was way under capacity and my pressures shot up so much I had to hammer the bolt open and had lost a primer or two. not to mention the primers were completely flat, zero radius between the primer and bass. it was very dangerous and I was very lucky. That load got scraped and backed off about two grains to make it safe.

Ok thanks,

what I'll do for now is sort through my various head stamps and duplicate the 38-42 gr. run and judge them side by side.

I'm just confused again now,

how do I use speed as a safety guideline once I do have a chronograph?

Recipes will show speed increasing with each incremental increase in charge.

"Max charge" and "Dangerous load" were noted on the charge data earlier in this thread but I've seen no "too fast" or "slow it down" such warnings.

Not being flippant at all just not getting how I use speed as a safety guideline.


Edit: Better yet what I did was to look at just what I have going headstamp wise.

The vast majority are WW Super headstamp @ 47.5 gr. powder

(9) Rem Umc @ 47.1 gr.

(4) RP @ 47.4 gr.

(8) Super Speed @ 47.9 gr.

(Don't know where I got that 52 gr. from before but that was a lesson)

Got no problem at all in isht canning 20 or so cases if you think that a .8
spread warrants it.....no I'll just get rid of them on general principle.

I had 1 in the assembled set that wasn't WW Super and I replaced it with one that was.

[kcstott]

Ok thanks,

what I'll do for now is sort through my various head stamps and duplicate the 38-42 gr. run and judge them side by side.

I'm just confused again now,

how do I use speed as a safety guideline once I do have a chronograph?

Recipes will show speed increasing with each incremental increase in charge.

"Max charge" and "Dangerous load" were noted on the charge data earlier in this thread but I've seen no "too fast" or "slow it down" such warnings.

Not being flippant at all just not getting how I use speed as a safety guideline.

I'm not taking you as Flippant at all. You said multiple times in various ways you're trying to understand all this. I just want you to be safe.

What I do is to see if my known weight of a given powder is close to the velocity that is published in a reloading manual. Even when I'm doing my load work up I print out the charge steps in Quickload and watch the chrono as I'm testing to see if the load is close to the Quickload data. You be surprised how close Quickload is if you put in the proper data. I've found my numbers to be well within 10 fps of predicted. Now if I'm getting the same velocity or within say 25fps as the book but I'm two grains lower in charge then I know I can not use the published maximum charge and need to stop early. I can also figure a rough velocity gain per increment of powder charge. and be able to accurately guess that if 40gr produces xxxx fps I should be able to figure out that 40.2gr will produce a known rise in velocity and be safe doing it.
It's all about knowing where you are and how much of a change you can safely use in your powder charge.

All the velocity is there for in terms of safety is to verify your data compared to the published data. it's a relative comparison and nothing more, but at least you have some idea of where you are on the load. Is it safe? Is it middle of the road? Or is it right at max? the only common way to find out is with a chrono. and velocity is not a predictor of pressure nor can velocity be correlated to pressure. But it's better than nothing.

[kcstott]

I'd do all my load work up with the brass I have the most of. And Yeah I'd toss the odd ball ones too. You can save them and use them once you do get a chrono but it's 21 cases... to me not worth it.

[stonefly-2]

I'm not taking you as Flippant at all. You said multiple times in various ways you're trying to understand all this. I just want you to be safe.

What I do is to see if my known weight of a given powder is close to the velocity that is published in a reloading manual. Even when I'm doing my load work up I print out the charge steps in Quickload and watch the chrono as I'm testing to see if the load is close to the Quickload data. You be surprised how close Quickload is if you put in the proper data. I've found my numbers to be well within 10 fps of predicted. Now if I'm getting the same velocity or within say 25fps as the book but I'm two grains lower in charge then I know I can not use the published maximum charge and need to stop early. I can also figure a rough velocity gain per increment of powder charge. and be able to accurately guess that if 40gr produces xxxx fps I should be able to figure out that 40.2gr will produce a known rise in velocity and be safe doing it.
It's all about knowing where you are and how much of a change you can safely use in your powder charge.

All the velocity is there for in terms of safety is to verify your data compared to the published data. it's a relative comparison and nothing more, but at least you have some idea of where you are on the load. Is it safe? Is it middle of the road? Or is it right at max? the only common way to find out is with a chrono. and velocity is not a predictor of pressure nor can velocity be correlated to pressure. But it's better than nothing.

I see...you cross check with speed being the "proof" of what you truly have.

[kcstott]

I see...you cross check with speed being the "proof" of what you truly have.

Yep. I have a list of what it should be, then the chrono to tell me what it is.

See everyone treats a reloading manual as a cook book. and that's not what it is. A reloading manual is a lab report. it is the measured results of a set of very specific components and firearms and barrel lengths. Complied by the publisher to give a reloader a a general idea of what they might expect with similar components and conditions. I see for to many times new reloaders expect their number to exactly match the published data. or refuse to use data that is close enough to what they are loading. i.e. bullet brands. I find it funny that some will not use data if their exact bullet is not listed in the manual disregard the brand of shell case, primer, firearm and barrel length. Once you understand that a reloading manual is not a recipe book, but just a simple lab report. it becomes far easier to make an educated guess at what to expect from a load then to wonder why you come up 100 fps difference and torment and worry over an exact number you can't control.

[ar15barrels]

I'm just confused again now,

how do I use speed as a safety guideline once I do have a chronograph?

Recipes will show speed increasing with each incremental increase in charge.

"Max charge" and "Dangerous load" were noted on the charge data earlier in this thread but I've seen no "too fast" or "slow it down" such warnings.

Not being flippant at all just not getting how I use speed as a safety guideline.

Speed and pressure directly correlate when you are using the same case volume and barrel which you are when you are working with one type of headstamp in one specific gun.

Look at this:

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.19% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-11.9   92    37.00   2595    1645   31093   7383     90.0    1.113
-10.7   94    37.50   2630    1690   32199   7510     90.7    1.096
-09.5   95    38.00   2666    1736   33349   7635     91.4    1.080
-08.3   96    38.50   2701    1782   34544   7756     92.1    1.064
-07.1   97    39.00   2737    1829   35787   7875     92.8    1.049
-06.0   99    39.50   2773    1878   37080   7991     93.4    1.033
-04.8  100    40.00   2808    1926   38426   8103     94.0    1.018
-03.6  101    40.50   2844    1976   39828   8212     94.6    1.002
-02.4  102    41.00   2880    2026   41287   8317     95.2    0.987
-01.2  104    41.50   2916    2077   42807   8419     95.7    0.972
+00.0  105    42.00   2952    2129   44390   8516     96.2    0.958
+01.2  106    42.50   2988    2181   46040   8609     96.7    0.943  ! Near Maximum !
+02.4  107    43.00   3024    2234   47762   8697     97.1    0.929  ! Near Maximum !
+03.6  109    43.50   3060    2287   49557   8781     97.5    0.915  ! Near Maximum !
+04.8  110    44.00   3096    2341   51430   8861     97.9    0.901  ! Near Maximum !
+06.0  111    44.50   3132    2396   53385   8935     98.3    0.886  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

If you look at the quickload steps here and then you go chronograph YOUR load, you will likely see different velocities than the indicated powder charge, but when you ignore the charge being slightly different and correlate the velocities to pressure.
Put another way, if you are testing a 40.0gr load and you get 2850fps, that means your gun is making more pressure than the computer model.
That could be a difference in powder lot or a tighter barrel or a smaller case capacity.
What matters for safety is the pressure because pressure is what makes things blow up.
We measure the velocity because it's much easier to measure than the actual pressure.
In your lower pressure cartridge, you are not going to reliably read pressure signs on primers and cases because common pressure signs are not going to develop until you are beyond the safe operating pressure of your cartridge.
So without being able to read primers and cases for pressure, all we have left is to read the velocity and correlate it to pressure using the computer model.

The computer model takes case capacity into account.
For example, here is the same model as above but with the case capacity reduced by 2gr:

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-11.9   97    37.00   2641    1704   33357   7394     90.8    1.078
-10.7   98    37.50   2678    1752   34598   7518     91.5    1.062
-09.5   99    38.00   2715    1800   35891   7638     92.2    1.045
-08.3  100    38.50   2751    1849   37239   7755     92.9    1.029
-07.1  102    39.00   2788    1899   38645   7869     93.5    1.013
-06.0  103    39.50   2825    1950   40110   7980     94.2    0.997
-04.8  104    40.00   2862    2001   41640   8086     94.8    0.982
-03.6  106    40.50   2900    2054   43237   8189     95.3    0.966
-02.4  107    41.00   2937    2107   44903   8287     95.9    0.951
-01.2  108    41.50   2974    2160   46645   8381     96.4    0.936  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0  110    42.00   3011    2215   48465   8470     96.8    0.921  ! Near Maximum !
+01.2  111    42.50   3048    2270   50367   8555     97.3    0.907  ! Near Maximum !
+02.4  112    43.00   3086    2326   52359   8635     97.7    0.892  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.6  114    43.50   3123    2382   54441   8709     98.1    0.877  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.8  115    44.00   3160    2439   56623   8778     98.4    0.862  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+06.0  116    44.50   3197    2497   58907   8842     98.7    0.847  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Now look what 42.0gr does compared to above.
The examples above are computer simulations, NOT actual tested load data.
The ultimate goal of using the computer model is to get the computer model to match what your specific gun is doing in the real world.
Once you get there, then you really have a better if idea of where you are on pressure.
Since we can't measure pressure, we measure velocity and compare it to the model to figure out the pressure.

The computer model has a LOT of inputs such as case capacity, barrel length, powder burn rate, temperature, charge weight, bore dimensions, bullet dimensions etc and ALL of those factors change the results in both the real world and the computer model.

[stonefly-2]

All went well,

no sooty necks on the low end and I would describe primer condition as a gradual reduction of the round edge.

The high end (42 gr.) has about 1/2 the bevel of the low end.

I feel like I'm well under my threshold of acceptable risk on this deal and thank you all.

Back on familiar ground and I'll winnow out what shoots best.

It's like a favorite rifle lost come home again.