A reloading library is good to have.....

[bigbossman]

I have been collecting old reloading manuals for a long time now - partly because I like to read them, but mostly because I shoot "obsolete" calibers and have some oddball powders on-hand (Alcan AL-5, W540, etc.).

The the older books come in handy, because they will have load information for powders and bullets that are no longer in production. For example, I've found excellent loads for .38spl using w540 and AL-5, and excellent loads for 25-20 and 32-20 using non-standard powders for those calibers.

For instance - I've been using 2400 for my 32-20, and it as well as 4227 are the "go-to" powders for this caliber. I did a bit of researching in my old reloading manuals, and found recipes for Bullseye (not surprising), 700X (mildly surprising), W540 (surprising), and RL-7 (really surprising!). Since I had all of those on-hand, I worked up loads for all of them, and took them to the range to test them out. It turns out, RL-7 was the clear winner, with a nice tight group at 50 yards out of my Winchester 1892. I never would have guessed that RL-7 would be suitable for a pistol cartridge like 32-20 and 25-20, but there are established loads for them and it works really, really well.

In this time of powder and component shortages, it's a very handy thing to be able to put overlooked powders to good use. Even with prices going into the stratosphere, that pound of RL-7 only cost me $15, the 3 cans of AL-5 another $15, and the 3 cans of W540 $10.

[ar15barrels]

All the new kids think there's no value in paper/ink books and that you can find it all online.
My reloading bookshelves say otherwise.

Quickload is also very useful for selecting powders.
For example, here is a powder chooser simulation to 20,000PSI for a 20" barrel 32-20 with a 115gr gas checked lead bullet from an RCBS mold.
Look particularly at the case fill percentage. Any powder at 102% case fill is likely too slow so we ignore those.

Cartridge          : .32-20 Win.
Bullet             : .308, 115, RCBS SP GC 30-115-SP
Useable Case Capaci: 13.563 grain H2O = 0.881 cm?
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.592 inch = 40.44 mm
Barrel Length      : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 20000 psi, or 137 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 102 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

20 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 50%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma R123                          80.9     10.1     0.66    1772   100.0    20000    1815   1.552
Hodgdon Lil'Gun                     91.0     11.8     0.77    1727    89.3    20000    2001   1.559
Winchester 296                      89.7     12.0     0.78    1702    78.2    20000    1933   1.576
Hodgdon H110                        89.6     12.0     0.78    1678    82.1    20000    1844   1.592
Vihtavuori N110 *C                  98.8     10.5     0.68    1662    89.1    20000    1734   1.589
Ramshot Enforcer                    79.0     10.1     0.65    1646    89.8    20000    1670   1.607
Vihtavuori N105 *C                  81.1      7.9     0.51    1624    99.9    20000    1397   1.602
Alliant 2400                        76.8      9.1     0.59    1611    88.0    20000    1580   1.631
Accurate 4100                       81.3     10.5     0.68    1605    84.6    20000    1585   1.627
Accurate No.7                       60.0      8.1     0.52    1586    95.7    20000    1443   1.642
Shooters World Major Pistol         60.0      8.1     0.52    1586    95.7    20000    1443   1.642
Shooters World Heavy Pistol         66.8      8.9     0.58    1580    90.6    20000    1481   1.643
Accurate No.9                       67.5      8.9     0.58    1580    90.6    20000    1481   1.643
Accurate No.11 FS                   89.7     11.6     0.75    1576    75.3    20000    1569   1.640
Accurate TCM                        66.9      8.6     0.56    1569    91.8    20000    1443   1.649
Alliant BLUE DOT                    76.6      7.8     0.51    1564    94.4    20000    1415   1.656
SNPE Vectan BA6?                   102.0     10.5     0.68    1562    89.9    18466    1513   1.675
Hodgdon H4227                       99.9     11.4     0.74    1553    72.1    20000    1546   1.655
Vihtavuori 3N38                     73.1      7.5     0.48    1541    97.7    20000    1289   1.664
IMR 4227                            97.7     11.2     0.72    1540    71.5    20000    1488   1.662
Alliant POWER PISTOL                60.2      6.0     0.39    1538    99.7    20000    1264   1.662
Accurate 5744                       85.9     10.3     0.67    1537    69.9    20000    1488   1.672
Shooters World Buffalo Rifle        87.9     10.3     0.67    1537    69.9    20000    1488   1.672
Shooters World Blackout             86.0     11.2     0.73    1529    68.8    20000    1459   1.669
Vihtavuori N125 *C                 102.0     11.9     0.77    1524    72.2    17457    1582   1.727
Accurate 1680                       97.3     12.7     0.82    1521    62.3    20000    1475   1.677
Vihtavuori 3N37                     61.6      5.9     0.39    1457   100.0    20000     988   1.712
Vihtavuori N350                     64.1      5.8     0.38    1448   100.0    20000     964   1.713
Hodgdon H4198                      102.0     12.0     0.78    1442    58.8    18480    1292   1.757
Alliant Reloder-7                  102.0     12.3     0.80    1441    62.4    15330    1450   1.837
Alliant HERCO                       67.8      5.3     0.34    1434   100.0    20000     937   1.737
SNPE Vectan BA7?                    66.8      6.1     0.40    1429   100.0    20000     946   1.731
Hodgdon CFE BLK *C                 102.0     13.5     0.88    1414    52.8    17854    1271   1.796
IMR 4198                           102.0     11.4     0.74    1406    60.2    16084    1283   1.840
Alliant UNIQUE                      59.6      4.8     0.31    1400   100.0    20000     859   1.759
Vihtavuori N120 *C                 102.0     11.6     0.75    1398    65.7    14613    1389   1.891
Alliant BULLSEYE                    51.2      4.2     0.28    1380   100.0    20000     835   1.759
Vihtavuori N340                     58.9      4.9     0.32    1364   100.0    20000     789   1.777
Accurate No.2                       56.0      4.6     0.30    1359   100.0    20000     802   1.777
Fiocchi F-Rex yellow                54.6      4.7     0.31    1349   100.0    20000     761   1.794
NitroKemia REX 3/Green/36           72.1      4.9     0.32    1343   100.0    20000     732   1.796
SNPE Vectan A0                      61.2      4.9     0.32    1334   100.0    20000     720   1.796
Vihtavuori N330                     55.6      4.5     0.29    1326   100.0    20000     718   1.813
SNPE Vectan SP 10                  102.0     13.6     0.88    1325    47.3    14758    1219   1.948
Hodgdon Universal                   54.5      4.4     0.28    1324   100.0    20000     730   1.825
NitroKemia REX 2/Yellow/32          69.3      4.6     0.30    1316   100.0    20000     694   1.816
SNPE Vectan BA9?                    55.9      4.5     0.29    1311   100.0    20000     704   1.824
Hodgdon H335                       102.0     13.9     0.90    1306    45.5    14911    1163   1.960
SNPE Vectan BA 9                    55.2      4.8     0.31    1305   100.0    20000     694   1.823
NitroKemia REX 1/Red/28             68.0      4.5     0.29    1303   100.0    20000     689   1.819
Accurate Solo 1250                  58.8      4.4     0.29    1301   100.0    20000     684   1.828
Norma 200 *C                       102.0     12.5     0.81    1294    54.0    10994    1336   2.115
Alliant Reloder-10x *C             102.0     12.0     0.78    1277    51.5    11922    1227   2.087
Shooters World Tactical Rifle      102.0     13.6     0.88    1276    44.3    14731    1083   1.990
Shooters World Tactical Rifle      102.0     13.6     0.88    1276    44.3    14731    1083   1.990
Vihtavuori N130 *C                 102.0     11.9     0.77    1265    53.0    12182    1149   2.084
SNPE Vectan AS                      50.0      4.0     0.26    1258   100.0    20000     628   1.867
Hodgdon Benchmark                  102.0     12.6     0.81    1257    46.4    12868    1079   2.064
Alliant GREEN DOT                   55.4      3.9     0.25    1254   100.0    20000     630   1.888
Accurate Nitro 100                  54.0      3.5     0.23    1249   100.0    20000     633   1.884
Shooters World Sparta 100           54.0      3.5     0.23    1249   100.0    20000     633   1.884
Vihtavuori N320                     53.2      3.9     0.25    1249   100.0    20000     612   1.888
Alliant Reloder-12                 102.0     13.0     0.84    1246    45.8    12928    1060   2.075
Hodgdon H322                       102.0     12.4     0.80    1242    44.5    12758    1046   2.084
Ramshot X-Terminator *C            102.0     13.6     0.88    1237    41.8    13126    1041   2.076
Accurate Solo 1000                  53.8      3.7     0.24    1225   100.0    20000     590   1.907
Alliant RED DOT                     55.7      3.5     0.22    1216   100.0    20000     586   1.928
Vihtavuori N530 *C                 102.0     12.8     0.83    1209    40.6    12321    1008   2.134

[BIGOX]

I absolutely agree. I love my vintage reloading manual library. The most used is my copy of Lyman handbook of cast bullets. I sell several vintage manuals every year but never get much interested here on CG. Nothing like having the book on hand

[bigbossman]

All the new kids think there's no value in paper/ink books and that you can find it all online.
My reloading bookshelves say otherwise.

Quickload is also very useful for selecting powders.
For example, here is a powder chooser simulation to 20,000PSI for a 20" barrel 32-20 with a 115gr gas checked lead bullet from an RCBS mold.
Look particularly at the case fill percentage. Any powder at 102% case fill is likely too slow so we ignore those.

Interesting. In my case, I'm using a 100gr Hornady XTP bullet, which is a jacketed hollow point. Your Quickload example sows RL-7 at 102% of case capacity with a 12gr load, but when I look in the case 1t is about 2/3rds full.

Alliant Reloder-7 102.0 12.3

Am I missing something, or misinterpreting?

[bigbossman]

Also - I see RL-10x on the Quickload list - really surprised by that. I happen to have a pound of that on-hand, as well. Hmmmmm...... maybe I ought look into this Quickload thing.

[sbo80]

as a new-er reloader, I'm curious as to how "consistent" a particular powder is, over time? Meaning - if a manual from 1975 has a load for Powder X, is that going to still be legit today? Is Powder X going to have the same properties it did back then? I feel like it should, but I'm not sure if that's true. I'm just thinking through how much loads from long ago, still remain valid (assuming you can still get the identical components).

[bigbossman]

as a new-er reloader, I'm curious as to how "consistent" a particular powder is, over time? Meaning - if a manual from 1975 has a load for Powder X, is that going to still be legit today? Is Powder X going to have the same properties it did back then? I feel like it should, but I'm not sure if that's true. I'm just thinking through how much loads from long ago, still remain valid (assuming you can still get the identical components).

It's a good question, and one I've thought about.

A couple of things - the odd-ball powder I have, like W540 and AL-5 or AL-8, is probably the same age as the old published recipes I find, so unless the powder is deteriorated (in which case it goes in the garden) the recipe is for the powder I have on-hand. Secondly, I always start at the minimum load and work up. That is the prudent thing to do, old recipe or new.

[ar15barrels]

Interesting. In my case, I'm using a 100gr Hornady XTP bullet, which is a jacketed hollow point.

If you give me your specific barrel length and cartridge OAL for that 100gr xtp as well as the testing temperature, I can run a simulation of your specific components in your specific conditions while will more precisely show how full your case actually is and what your pressure/velocity likely is.

Your Quickload example sows RL-7 at 102% of case capacity with a 12gr load, but when I look in the case 1t is about 2/3rds full.

Am I missing something, or misinterpreting?

You are forgetting that the bullet occupies the space above the powder.
In your example, the bullet is using the top 1/3 of the case and the available powder space is the bottom 2/3 of the case.

The 102% case fill is 102% of the space available to the bottom of the bullet, not to the case mouth.
Quickload knows how long the case is and how deep the bullet is seated in the case so it knows how much powder space there is left in the case.
102% is 2% compressed and that's what I use as my max case fill.
If you get into 108% or 110% with some powders, the powder is so compressed that the bullets will grow longer sitting in the ammo box.
No such problems at 102% of available space with any powders.

[ar15barrels]

as a new-er reloader, I'm curious as to how "consistent" a particular powder is, over time? Meaning - if a manual from 1975 has a load for Powder X, is that going to still be legit today? Is Powder X going to have the same properties it did back then? I feel like it should, but I'm not sure if that's true. I'm just thinking through how much loads from long ago, still remain valid (assuming you can still get the identical components).

Powders sold to reloaders are considered "cannister" grade.
That means that every lot is blended to match the standard for the specific powder specifically so that you can use 50year old data and it will be the same.

Cannister powders are more expensive than non-cannister because non-cannister is just made however it's made and then specific loads are developed to use up the lot.

If you are Winchester or Remington or any other big ammo manufacturer, you order up a few train cars full of non-cannister powder in a general burn rate and then you develop a load for that specific lot and you load that load until that lot is used up.
That's how the big ammo companies all do it.

[bigbossman]

If you give me your specific barrel length and cartridge OAL for that 100gr xtp as well as the testing temperature, I can run a simulation of your specific components in your specific conditions while will more precisely show how full your case actually is and what your pressure/velocity likely is.

Barrel is 24", COL is 1.62, and it was about 90 degrees out when I fired the test group.

Thanks!

[Revoman]

I too have an old manual library that I always compare loads with. It's good to use a minimum of three recipe sources to see how they compare with one another for recipe assurance.
The oldest manual that I have is from around 1974ish.
While I have the larger published tomes, I refer mostly to the small paperback manuals that the manufacturer's produced as they seem to be more updated (every year at least).
I also believe that the older manuals were somewhat more generous with the load data....before the lawyers stuck their noses into the recipe books.
While electronic information is okay and will work for newer stuff, as bigbossman stated, it doesn't cover the 'old' stuff for caca!

[eaglemike]

Agree, it's really nice to be able to look up stuff in the old manuals. I bought the books by Ackley at a garage sale long ago, along with some other reloading manuals. I still have some of the smaller pamphlet type guides they used to gave out every year at gun shows, shot show, etc. Some of the data that I have in the old manuals isn't shown in he new manuals, as you all noted. Ken Waters books are useful, even though not fully up to date. His load for Unique in .45 acp with a 230 grain I found to be quite accurate (one example).
I bought quickload but haven't started using it yet. It's on the round-2-it list. Working for a living (paying taxes) keeps getting in the way of what I want to do.

[anyracoon]

Pet Loads by Ken Waters

[glassparman]

So YOU are the guy that competes with me on fleabay for all the vintage reloading books!

Good job

JK, I know what you mean, my shelf is loaded with the old stuff and I always refer back to them before new books and usually find what I need as I also reload strange and obsolete stuff. Some of which are not even in the books like my 8mm Kropatscheck. That's just a plain old Black Powder cartridge.

[bigbossman]

Pet Loads by Ken Waters

It's the cornerstone of my reference library.

So YOU are the guy that competes with me on fleabay for all the vintage reloading books!

Actually, I haven't bought a book off that site in a long time. I've had really good luck at gun shows rummaging through the "junk" boxes, and garage sales.

A couple Saturday's ago, I bought a box of reloading stuff for $20. In the box was a complete MEC 600jr, about ten different powder bushings, two charge bars, and a bag of 7-1/2 shot. Bonus - the bottom of the box was lined with three old powder manufacturer manuals that were quite helpful.