Simple All-Copper Bullet Question

[bergmen]

I've never loaded or shot all-copper bullets before. Aside from the cost (they are 2x-3x the cost of jacketed or plated) I wonder how they conform to the rifling of a barrel and seal against pressure.

Jacketed and plated (as well as lead and hard cast) are soft enough to easily be swaged into the rifling and seal. It would seem that solid copper would be much harder to do the same.

But these seem to be successful. I'm just curious.

Dan

[stilly]

Good question. But my question is why would you want them?

For target practice, I prefer lead that has been powder coated. For performance, I prefer lead HP that has been powder coated... I have loaded plated rounds too and only shoot them to conform to the rules of a given range in shooting lead or PCP or copper...

If I was to load for self defense, I would look for the compressed frangible projectiles.

My guess is that they WILL conform to the rifling since they are copper and you might even get a decent velocity out of them if they are under 180gr in weight. Hell, you MIGHT get them to over 1200 FPS which is nice for a .45 ACP. and maybe closer to 1500+ in 9mm if they are closer to around 100gr or less. But I am talking about things I know nothing about. And I am just some guy on the internets.

Maybe you should buy a small amount of them and play around and see what you can make them do. You DO reload right?

Bruh?

Do you even load?

[bergmen]

Good question. But my question is why would you want them?

For target practice, I prefer lead that has been powder coated. For performance, I prefer lead HP that has been powder coated... I have loaded plated rounds too and only shoot them to conform to the rules of a given range in shooting lead or PCP or copper...

If I was to load for self defense, I would look for the compressed frangible projectiles.

My guess is that they WILL conform to the rifling since they are copper and you might even get a decent velocity out of them if they are under 180gr in weight. Hell, you MIGHT get them to over 1200 FPS which is nice for a .45 ACP. and maybe closer to 1500+ in 9mm if they are closer to around 100gr or less. But I am talking about things I know nothing about. And I am just some guy on the internets.

Maybe you should buy a small amount of them and play around and see what you can make them do. You DO reload right?

Bruh?

Do you even load?

Been reloading for 25+ years all center fire calibers (a dozen or so). Incidentally, all of my shooting is recreational target shooting at the private range I am a member of.

I don't hunt anymore but if I did, all bullets (and shot) must be lead-free in California. Solid copper (Barnes for instance) is becoming popular as a lead-free projectile.

Jacketed lead and all lead (or hard cast) and plated lead are soft enough to conform to the rifling during firing. Solid copper is much harder and I'm just asking if there is any performance issues with regards to conforming to the rifling and sealing the bore against the pressure.

Dan

[stilly]

Are these for pistol or rifle though?

I do not really have access to outside ranges. Well, I do, but after about 20 rounds I hear whispers on the other side of the fence and then the ghetto bird flies over several times so I only get about 14 minutes before I gotta get inside and stay away from the windows (because Flir)... So I tend to stick with Pistol loads. And for the record, when they get the ghetto bird flying overhead AND the SUVs show up, those guys are VERY persistent. Far more than JWs ever were. And they knock LOUD! How do you tell them that nobody is home without telling them that nobody is home? They will bang on the doors for an hour or more and sometimes even hop the fence and look around in the back... (Brass catcher works good...)

[bergmen]

Are these for pistol or rifle though?

I do not really have access to outside ranges. Well, I do, but after about 20 rounds I hear whispers on the other side of the fence and then the ghetto bird flies over several times so I only get about 14 minutes before I gotta get inside and stay away from the windows (because Flir)... So I tend to stick with Pistols loads. And for the record, when they get the ghetto bird flying overhead AND the SUVs show up, those guys are VERY persistent. Far more than JWs ever were. And they knock LOUD!

Most of my hand loading is for handguns (.32 acp, .32 S&W Long, .38 Special (including +P), .357 Magnum, .45 acp, .45 Colt (Ruger only loads), 454 Casull).

I do load for rifle (30-30, .308 Winchester, 300 WSM) but shoot these much less often. I have not purchased factory ammo for any of these in decades.

Dan

[Steve45-70]

I recently loaded up some 185 gr Barnes for the 45 acp. I was trying to keep them standard loads and was getting about 950 fps with Titegroup. They shot fine and grouped well. Might try some other powders to maybe get a little more velocity. Just did not have any as most of the stuff I load is pretty mild.

I have a couple boxes of the Barnes 115 for the 9mm but looking for some different powder before I try them out. As others have said I would not want to be using these for target practice as they are not cheap. I basically want something to carry in my pistol when I am hunting.

I am a big fan of Barnes bullets and even shot them before we were requiring non lead in rifles. Just loaded some cool 300 gr bullets for the 45-70. One thing to keep in mind is copper is lighter and therefore has more bearing surface for the same weight. Basically you can not simply use the same load data for the same weight lead jacketed bullet.

[kcstott]

I've never loaded or shot all-copper bullets before. Aside from the cost (they are 2x-3x the cost of jacketed or plated) I wonder how they conform to the rifling of a barrel and seal against pressure.

Jacketed and plated (as well as lead and hard cast) are soft enough to easily be swaged into the rifling and seal. It would seem that solid copper would be much harder to do the same.

But these seem to be successful. I'm just curious.

Dan

the only way you could find out is to water test them. shoot them in a water column then look at them under magnification.
If you're that concerned with gas seal just load with a Poly wad and call it good.

[Sandspider500]

Annealed copper is fairly soft.

[otteray]

Several years ago, I reloaded using the Barnes reload data for .41 Mag, using a Marlin lever action rifle and S&W Model 57 revolver. I found the handloaded ammo to be very accurate after adjusting for POI with the lighter bullet weight; and with similar posted chrono readings.

[Buymoreguns]

Cutting edge bullets' whole selling point is their oversized driving band that seals the bore. I use hammer bullets for copper and I found it very accurate, maybe their wavy bearing surface also helps seal the bore. Barnes and Hornady gmx we're not accurate for me, maybe it's not sealing as the op is asking about? Cutting edge bullets' we're better but not great either for me.

[NapalmCheese]

I have recovered Barnes bullets from the berm after shooting them:


And from the dirt behind a deer I shot:


All have been engraved by the rifling. Hard to see in the pictures and I don't think I can measure anything that small (the engraving depth) with any precision.

Velocities are good, brass looks fine, IMO they seal just fine.

[bergmen]

Cutting edge bullets' whole selling point is their oversized driving band that seals the bore. I use hammer bullets for copper and I found it very accurate, maybe their wavy bearing surface also helps seal the bore. Barnes and Hornady gmx we're not accurate for me, maybe it's not sealing as the op is asking about? Cutting edge bullets' we're better but not great either for me.

I totally forgot about the oversized driving band that seals the bore. That does the trick, thanks for clarifying!

Dan

[bergmen]

I have recovered Barnes bullets from the berm after shooting them:


And from the dirt behind a deer I shot:


All have been engraved by the rifling. Hard to see in the pictures and I don't think I can measure anything that small (the engraving depth) with any precision.

Velocities are good, brass looks fine, IMO they seal just fine.

Good post, thanks!

Dan

[CVShooter]

I handloaded .223 and .308 Barnes TTSX. In the case of the .308, I'm driving it pretty fast with a fast powder. They both shoot great. I'm a fan.

[NapalmCheese]

Than can shoot pretty well.