Alignment and measurements

[Dirtlaw]

Again, I have tension gages, none of them measure tensions, they all measure weight in pounds or deflection in thousandths.

F. Guffey

Guffey, where do you live? Would you let me see some of your stuff?

[divingin]

The need to speak the same language. To do that we need to have measurement standards agreed upon by everyone.

There are Standards, where some certifying agency sets strict criteria for measurement and limits; and there are standards, which people who use whatever it is you're talking about come up with. Doesn't really matter which you use, as long as everyone knows what that particular S(s)tandard is.

Hence, people's consternation when talking about headspace, and repeatedly being reminded that "a cartridge has no headspace". (And yes, I know that's technically correct, but everyone knows what's being discussed, and everyone understands the conversation, so why waste time correcting things other than to show off how much more you know compared to other reloaders?) That's what gets Guffey kicked from forums (especially when added to his other ramblings.)

[LynnJr]

Dirtlaw
I run unlimited range matches and we have shooters who will call misses as 2 mils left 6 minutes left or 3 gongs left.
What its called doesnt matter as long as everyone understands what is being conveyed.
Today we have reloaders talking CBTO or cartridge base to ogive when giving seating depths. I am old enough that i predate that langauge but i understand what is being conveyed by those using that terminology. There is no standard for the length of the comparators we use so CBTO is only valid if your using the same equipment.
We measure age in seconds minutes hours days weeks months years decades centuries and not ages.
Typical ammo like you read about here will require roughly 35 foot pounds of pressure to seat with a neck diameter 0.003 smaller than the bullets diameter. This is commonly referred to as 3 thousanths neck tension.
We could rename it to 3 Guffeys or 3 burps or 3 Dirtlaws and it wouldnt change a thing.
Now if Mr Guffey was setting world record after world record we would all be using whatever terminology he wanted us to use but looking at the record books i cant find a single mention of his name.
All of the major die manufacturers make shoulder bump dies even if Mr Guffey claims it cant be done its the name given to those dies by the engineers and lawyers at places like Redding.
Thomas "Speedy" Gonzales was shooting very well in benchrest and Redding came out with the type S dies you can buy today.
As soon as Mr Guffey starts setting records i am positive Redding will start making G spot dies.

[TomReloaded]

I don't think this is about shooting guns. I think this is about taking near-random measurements in obscure units.

[FLIGHT762]

As soon as Mr Guffey starts setting records i am positive Redding will start making G spot dies.

I can't wait to say, " I sized my cases .003" below the G spot".

[67Cuda]

Engagement is tension.

Life is not fair, interferents fit and crush fit cannot be measured in in tensions. I had a press that measured 1000,000+ with a large gage that measured in pounds. When repairing worn-out holes I bushed the holes with a sleeve, I started the sleeve with a sledgehammer and finished installing with the press.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Hence, people's consternation when talking about headspace, and repeatedly being reminded that "a cartridge has no headspace". (And yes, I know that's technically correct, but everyone knows what's being discussed, and everyone understands the conversation, so why waste time correcting things other than to show off how much more you know compared to other reloaders?

)

In the beginning reloaders identified the datum as a straight line, they plagiarized a drawing, they still do, they called the datum a line and they added the arrow that showed them where it was located. The silly part, they claimed they understood. The only way I could find the datum on a tapper was with a round hole-circle.

I developed three different ways to measure the length of a chamber without a head space gage. Reloaders talk about head space gages in lofty terms, and then there are the sized cases that will not allow the bolt to close. How does that happen? A reloader should know if the case is sized before they remove the case from the die.

I know there are reloader that claim they have been reloading for 65 years, some of them never heard of SAAMI, many of them did not know SAAMI said the case does not have head space, many of them never looked at the case drawings and noticed SAAMI did not mention head space in the Ledgen of the case drawing. Then we go back to the Claim Department, too many reloaders belong in the claim department, they claim everyone knows what the other is saying and or talking about.

And then they claim they move the shoulder back when sizing, I insist it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has case body, shoulder support.

How silly is it to call a dial indicator stand a digital head space gage? I have tool catalogs that go back 110 years, I have Machinist Handbooks that list micrometers as gages. I do not care how you spell 'gage'.

And then the reloaders claimed the Wilson case gage was a drop-in-gage. No one noticed the Sinclair-Hornady COMPARITOR was off because they could not build the gage with a ZERO reading. Wilson had no problem building their case gage with a zero.

You claim everyone knows, I do not believe they do, if they knew they would not make so many excuses for not knowing.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

That's what gets Guffey kicked from forums (especially when added to his other ramblings.)

Reloaders claim they cast chambers, recently one claimed he was going to make a chamber case to check the headspace of the chamber, MikeG a moderator claimed it was not possible to case the chamber when determining the length of the chamber (headspace)

I said yes, it is possible, I have been doing for years. MikeG responded with a warning if I ever mentioned casting a chamber to determine headspace, he was going to ban me for life. Do not show up a moderator.

But they have an excuse, everyone knows what the other is talking about if they are not capable of understanding they are allowed to claim the other person is rambling.

Before that: reloaders were having trouble sizing cases that would not allow the bolt to close. I suggested there is a chance the case had more resistance to sizing than the press and die can overcome, I suggested the reloader learn to determine if the case has been sized before the ram is lowered. etc. etc.
and then I suggested the reloader use a feeler gage when trouble shooting. I got 2 months off for that one.

It was not long before a moderator did a cut and paste of my response, he started with "it aint no Biggy, I do this all the time" and I ask, where is his pride, self-respect and dignity.

F. Guffey