Loading 20 practical

[devster55]

https://sagesreloadingforum.com/threads/2510-Building-a-20-practical

[BeFrank]

I started resizing my brass a couple of months ago but I am still building my upper. I was able to find the .204 insert but I don't think its required. I usually decap with a Lee universal decapper.
I should be ready for the range in about a week and would like to compare notes on loads and function

[devster55]

I started resizing my brass a couple of months ago but I am still building my upper. I was able to find the .204 insert but I don't think its required. I usually decap with a Lee universal decapper.
I should be ready for the range in about a week and would like to compare notes on loads and function

Sounds good. Just shoot me a PM.

[ar15barrels]

When I size my brass using the dies the bullet is still loose ( which I thought would happen)

A loose bullet to brass fit is either the die being too large for your brass thickness or the expander being too large.
You can test this by sizing a case without the expender.
If the problem goes away, your expander is too big so you need to make it smaller.
If the problem does not go away, then your brass is too thin for your die or your die is too large for your brass.

If you are neck turning brass and using standard dies, then that's your problem as standard dies are not intended to be used with neck turned brass.

[waveslayer]

You most likely have a die that accepts bushings. If there are no bushings you're not shrinking down the necks just pushing the shoulder back. I'd check there.

If you're certain it's not a bushing die it's the die that's not neck sizing enough. Neck thickness wouldn't be a big factor we are talking .0015"

Start with getting a proper bushing... that is what it sounds like

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[ar15barrels]

You most likely have a die that accepts bushings.
If there are no bushings you're not shrinking down the necks just pushing the shoulder back.
I'd check there.

If you're certain it's not a bushing die it's the die that's not neck sizing enough. Neck thickness wouldn't be a big factor we are talking .0015"

If he has what's listed in the thread he linked, he has a lee 223 full length and collet die set.
What he might not have done was properly convert it to 20 caliber.

[waveslayer]

If he has what's listed in the thread he linked, he has a lee 223 full length and collet die set.

What he might not have done was properly convert it to 20 caliber.

Exactly it's not resizing the neck at all.

OP get a neck sizing die with Bushings for that perfect fit [emoji6]

My wife thinks I only have 3 guns

[devster55]

Thanks guys. I figured that’s what the issue was.

[ar15barrels]

And what was the issue?

[devster55]

And what was the issue?

In the thread I posted it said that a 223 FL die with a 20cal expander would form the case. I called Lee and they said they do not sell a .204 bushing for their collet neck sizing die. So my plan is now to just buy a Redding s bushing 223rem die with a .225 bushing and go from there. The main thing I’m worried about is different neck thickness. I know that you know way more then I do on this type of stuff and I really appreciate your feedback. Should I get some other bushings as well?

[pacrat]

In the thread I posted it said that a 223 FL die with a 20cal expander would form the case. I called Lee and they said they do not sell a .204 bushing for their collet neck sizing die. So my plan is now to just buy a Redding s bushing 223rem die with a .225 bushing and go from there. [[[The main thing I’m worried about is different neck thickness.]]] I know that you know way more then I do on this type of stuff and I really appreciate your feedback. Should I get some other bushings as well?

Bolded ..... Sorry OP, it is obvious that you misread the link you provided. And the instructions posted by "lavazhole". Or possibly misconstrued the instructions.

As to the underlined in quote. If you go with the bushing die suggested by another. You will further complicate the process by introducing "neck turning" into the mix. Bushing dies require turned necks to work properly. Which you show concern for in the bracketted sentence.

With the Lee 4 die set.
[1] ... FL size the case body using the 223 FL die, without the decapper/expander. Or with a 204 decap stem. But not necessary, because the 204 Mandrel for the collet die, also decaps.

[2] ... Then use the COLLET NECK SIZING die. With a 204 Ruger mandrel. To size the neck. DONE Forming.

From "lavazhole's" post. https://www.titanreloading.com/lee-s...ger?search=204

Is used to decap already formed and fired, 20 Practical cases. In the 223 FL die body. Because the .223 stem will no longer fit the 20 cal neck. It is not a part of the forming process. It is for the reloading process.

Bushings dies and Collet dies are different animals and use different principles of metal forming.

Collets squeeze the neck laterally onto the mandrel. Neck thickness is of no concern, because the process INDEXES off the ID of the neck. Which is the IMPORTANT "D". And needs no "expander".

Bushing dies use friction to form the OD of neck. If necks aren't turned. They just transfers any discrepancy in neck thickness to the ID.

[ar15barrels]

In the thread I posted it said that a 223 FL die with a 20cal expander would form the case. I called Lee and they said they do not sell a .204 bushing for their collet neck sizing die.

Collet dies don't have or use a bushing so they certainly can't sell you one.

A collet die squeezes the case neck down against a mandrel.
This page has pictures and better explains how they work:

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2018/10/how-to-neck-size-cases-with-lee-collet-die/

The mandrel supports the case neck from the inside so that the collet can not squeeze it anymore than needed.
What I read in that other thread is that simply changing the mandrel will let the 223rem collet squeeze the neck down enough since it's only 0.020" or 0.010" per side smaller.

Measure your neck thickness.
Double it because you have two sides of the case neck holding the bullet.
Add that doubled thickness to the bullet diameter.
Subtract 0.001" from the total and order that bushing size.
Your case necks will get slightly thicker as you neck the cases down but that calculated number should work fine.
If you want to order 3 bushings, go up and down 0.001" from the calculated value.

[ar15barrels]

You will further complicate the process by introducing "neck turning" into the mix.
Bushing dies require turned necks to work properly.

No they don't.

I know you know this so this is for the OP's benefit even though I am replying to your post...

The whole reasoning for a bushing die is to allow for adjustment of how much sizing occurs.
This is different from non-bushing dies in that non-bushing dies are FIXED.
In order to work with all thicknesses of brass, non-bushing dies need to be made smaller than necessary.
Then since the case was squeezed down too much, the expander ball opens the neck back up to the proper ID.
This extra sizing work hardens the brass.

The use of a bushing allows to size just enough or just a little more than necessary, but not nearly as much as a non-bushing die does.

With that etablished, there are two ways to use a bushing die.

The method you are talking about is what I call free-sizing where you turn the case necks to get them all the same thickness and then let the bushing set the ID of the case neck WITHOUT the use of an expander ball.
That method does require consistent neck thicknesses in order to get a consistent neck ID.

The BETTER way to use a bushing die is NOT to free-size and instead use the bushing to simply minimize the EXCESS sizing and still use an expander ball.
When done this way, you get the benefit of the bushing (not excessively sizing) but also the consistency in finished case neck ID that comes from the expander ball.

[pacrat]

OP, as Randall mentioned.

Collet dies don't have or use a bushing so they certainly can't sell you one.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049354?pid=871420 Our Price:
$89.99

Plus bushing cost, since they come without. Approx another $10. Plus shipping [unknown]

Well over $100, and not needed, since you already have the deluxe 4 die Lee set. As the guy in the link suggested.

Get the 204 MANDREL for the COLLET die. And you are in business.

KISS RULE applies.

Spend the $100+ on components.

Randall, Yes, I was referring to what you refer to as "free sizing".

[ar15barrels]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018049354?pid=871420 Our Price:
$89.99

Plus bushing cost, since they come without. Approx another $10. Plus shipping [unknown]

Well over $100, and not needed, since you already have the deluxe 4 die Lee set.

The Lee full length sizer also could have the die opened up to accept neck bushings.