Case crunch

[divingin]

Maybe the die is slightly crimping the bullet when seating?

Any time you seat and crimp at one station, you're crimping while seating. Both operations require the ram to be moving upwards to perform that piece of work. And since you're doing them at the same time...

[Beelzy]

Any time you seat and crimp at one station, you're crimping while seating. Both operations require the ram to be moving upwards to perform that piece of work. And since you're doing them at the same time...

The bullet gets seated first then at the end of the stroke the crimped is applied. Not really happening at the same time, unless the die is set incorrectly.

[golfish]

Oh my!!!!

[pacrat]

The bullet gets seated first then at the end of the stroke the crimped is applied. Not really happening at the same time, unless the die is set incorrectly.

Sorry, incorrect. Both operations are done simultaneously. The Stem, and the Crimp portion of Die/Stem assembly. Are fixed static points during the combo operation. The only moving parts are the case/bullet.

CORRECTLY adjusted die/stem. "TIMES" the two operations to occur at very end of ram stroke.

If the die body/crimp is adjusted too low, in relation to stem. It will crimp early as the bullet is seated. And can cause OP's issue.

OP said, that is not the problem.

[divingin]

The bullet gets seated first then at the end of the stroke the crimped is applied. Not really happening at the same time, unless the die is set incorrectly.

I'd really like to hear how you think that could be.

The bullet is seated due to the ram pushing the case up. The case is crimped by the same action. The crimp bevel and seating plug do not move in relation to each other. Therefore the bullet is being pushed down any time the case is moving up (which is required to apply the crimp.)

[Beelzy]

I'd really like to hear how you think that could be.

The bullet is seated due to the ram pushing the case up. The case is crimped by the same action. The crimp bevel and seating plug do not move in relation to each other. Therefore the bullet is being pushed down any time the case is moving up (which is required to apply the crimp.)

Oy, not happening simultaneously.

[ar15barrels]

The bullet gets seated first then at the end of the stroke the crimped is applied.
Not really happening at the same time, unless the die is set incorrectly.

Yes it absolutely is happening at the same time.
Explain HOW the bullet seating STOPS while the crimp happens.

Does the seating stem magically stop pushing on the bullet while the case is being crimped against the bullet?
The answer is NO.
The bullet is still moving upwards the SAME AS THE CASE if you are seating and crimping at the same time in a single die.

This problem is specifically why so many progressive presses separate the seating and crimping into two different stations with separate dies.

[sigstroker]

I don't crimp with the bullet seater die. I crimp in a separate step with a Lee Factory Crimp die. Most of their products are a little on the cheap side with flimsy materials, but those Factory Crimp dies are genius.

[heavyhaulin818]

Could it be a small base vs non-small base dies vs brass that may or may not have thin sided walls?

[smoothy8500]

Could it be a small base vs non-small base dies vs brass that may or may not have thin sided walls?

No. Small base has no impact or effect on shoulder of the case vs standard die.

The projectile snagged a sharp edge of the case mouth while being seated.

[fguffey]

Too bad, you moved the shoulder on a case back and you are struggling on how to determine how you did it. In an effort to convince a bunch of reloaders it could not be done with a die that had full case body support, I turned a case into a case a with bellows.

F. Guffey

[pennstater]

Too bad, you moved the shoulder on a case back and you are struggling on how to determine how you did it. In an effort to convince a bunch of reloaders it could not be done with a die that had full case body support, I turned a case into a case a with bellows.

F. Guffey

WTF!? ??????????????? Explain to us EXACTLY what you're talking about.

MLC

[golfish]

WTF!? ??????????????? Explain to us EXACTLY what you're talking about.

MLC

Tom, I lost FG at "to bad"
I'm not even sure who he's talking to or even if he's in the right thread, or forum...

Too bad, you moved the shoulder on a case back and you are struggling on how to determine how you did it. In an effort to convince a bunch of reloaders it could not be done with a die that had full case body support, I turned a case into a case a with bellows.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Reloaders believe they can move the shoulder of the case back, and then there are those that believe they have gotten so good at
they can bump the shoulder back.

I disagree, I have said it is absolutely impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has full case body support. No one on this forum can look at that case and see the shoulder of the case has been moved back.

I can move the shoulder back on a case, the only way I can move the shoulder back is start at the case body/shoulder juncture. In appearance the case takes on the look of an accordion or Volkswagen thermostat from an air-cooled engine.

I know it is a mind-boggling thing; When sizing a case with full body case support part of the case body becomes part of the shoulder and part of the shoulder becomes part of the neck. For those of you that can keep up the shoulder when sizing only moves forward.

I understand it is impossible to convince a reloader the shoulder they start with when sizing is not the same shoulder they started with.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Tom, I lost FG at "to bad"
I'm not even sure who he's talking to or even if he's in the right thread, or forum.

There is a chance you are totally lost; I do not hold that against you. First, I said it is impossible to move the shoulder, the shoulder will not move back. the shoulder can only move toward the neck end of the die. After that I made it very clear the shoulder could not be moved back with a die that has full case body support. And I said I do not care how good you get as a reloader you will never be able to bump the shoulder back. I know I have heard reloaders claim they have bump dies and body dies, I have even called the companies that claim they make those fancy dies. I always ask them how they do that? I find it impossible to size the body of a case without sizing the shoulder at the same time.

The case in the picture was sized with a die that does not have case body support.

F. Guffey