.45 ACP MAGNUM SHOT SHELLS ???

[sofbak]

So I continue to dabble in the wonderful world of pistol caliber shot shells. My current goal is to create a .45 acp shot shell in the magnum variety. That being a case that is at or near the max COAL for a .45 acp round, and one that will cycle a typical .45 acp hand gun. Salient facts include:

1. The test gun is a "box stock" Sig P220.
2. Cases are being fabricated from Lake City .30-06 brass.
3. Loading with Bullseye, to 5.7 gr which is max for a 230 gr jacketed bullet.
4. Cases are cut and sized with multiple dies such that they fit the magazine, and completely insert into the chamber while allowing maximum room for powder and shot.
5. After a cardboard over-powder wad, cases are filled with #8 shot (weight unknown), and sealed with silicone caulk.

After all the above, they shoot with a devastating blow and a very concentrated pattern (less that 9" at 4 yds).

Problem is, they don't recycle the gun! The fired case remains in the chamber. I can manually retract the slide and eject the fired case, and load the next case. But on it's own, no bueno. I know the slid is moving back-just can't tell if it's moving far enough back to eject the (full length) fired case.

So the question is:

-Do I need a bigger powder charge here?
or
-Do I need to shorten the magnum case length a bit to ensure that the fired case clears the throat and gets ejected from the gun?

[Thefeeder]

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I don't know squat about shot shells in pistols....however a question did come to mind

What is the weight of the shot .....230gr? Might be a powder issue combined with light shot payload

[TomReloaded]

You have essentially zero gas seal. I think you need to chop off a lead base cup to actually seal up the cylinder, and pack in shot.

Id imagine you need sort of a hybrid. Like a Glaser safety slug, but less stable in flight to make "shot". Sort of.

[JagerDog]

Consider an inverted gas check for over powder wad.

Why wouldn't you weight the shot?

[pacrat]

Problem is, they don't recycle the gun!

And I seriously doubt they ever will. As JD suggested, an inverted GC to act as a gas seal might help minimally.

But unless you can increase the recoil impulse enough to mimic a bullet being fired. Which the pistol is designed to do. It will at best short cycle and never fully eject and feed.

UNLESS ... You change the recoil spring to compensate for the seriously lower recoil impulse acting on the slide with your shot shells.

JM2c

[Donny1]

I just went through working up a load for 38spl. The main difference came when the cards were made of .030 hard plastic that I had to press in with quite a bit of force. As said above, no gas seal.

[sofbak]

^^^I tried that .030 plastic for a powder wad. Trying to get it past a basic 0.40 neck, and down into a 0.43 base ID was impossible.

I think I need to up the powder charge here.


I can say that this load fire-forms the cases very well!

[hermosabeach]

Powder charges can be a funny thing

Something about momentum and getting the bullet moving.
And object at rest - stays at rest until a force acts upon it.

The lighter bullets sometimes need more power.

I have loaded a ton of 38/357

With 700x -357 mag
Starting load with a 110 grain bullet is 5 grains

Starting load with a 180 grain bullet is 4 grains- max 4.7 grains
Yup
Max charge for 180 grain is less than the starting load for 110.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53

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So I would weigh your shot charge! If it is 100 grains and you are using powder for a 225 grain pill, the formula is off


Obviously - do every thing at your own risk

I'm wondering about a better seal that is repeatable

I like the gas check option. I'm also wondering if a lead disk on top of the gas check would be beneficial?

Cast a .45 caliber solid and slice it to 1/8" thick. Place this on top of the gas check to help keep gas check straight / perpendicular to the bore

I would also fire one and check the bore before firing another.



If you

[hermosabeach]

This video says 1/3 ounce aka 145 grains in #9 shot

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GNKioE7gzyE

150 pellets

[hermosabeach]

Same website above has some 135 grain 45 acp powder loads

BULLET WEIGHT
135 GR. PLYCS RNP
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder CFE Pistol
BUY NOW
Bullet Diam. 0.452"
C.O.L 1.2600
Starting Load
Grs. 8.2
Vel. (ft/s) 1,163
Pressure 15,400 PSI
Maximum Load
Grs. 9.1
Vel. (ft/s) 1,288
Pressure 20,300 PSI

[FLIGHT762]

Don't turn yourself into a Pirate.

[sofbak]

Consider an inverted gas check for over powder wad.

Why wouldn't you weight the shot?

In my development of a .45 colt shot shell, I found that the weight of the shot never equals or exceeds the weight of a solid boolit. There is a lot of open space around those little balls, so the weight never comes close. Not even with a magnum colt case made from a cut down .460 S&W case that is about 0.020" longer than the colt COAL.

I verified the same thing with the .45 acp experiments. My "made from .30-06 cases" acp shells are 1.265-1.270" long, and even with the 5.7 gr of Bullseye, the shot weight is around 122 grs-and the BoLee data for that 5.7 gr of BE calls for a 230 gr projectile. I weighed a couple after being questioned about it here.

So in pistol caliber shot shells, the shot weigh is just never going to equal or exceed a solid boolit appropriate for the powder load. Too much free space around the balls.

I'm thinking if fire forming the cases doesn't solve the "won't cycle" issue, I'm going to first try and fit a stouter/thicker wad over the powder, and if that doesn't work, I'll start bumping up the BE load by 0.2 gr increments. I'm not concerned about over pressure, because a lot of that hot gas goes flowing around individual shot balls once the burn party starts, so we'll see.

[Calif Hunter]

Now I am thinking about coming up with shotshells using .30-06 brass for my 1917 revolver with moonclips? I could go with a longer length brass since I do not have to worry about functioning - perhaps a slight neckdown to approximate the length of a normal round with a bullet?

Hmmm? Anyone tried this?

I guess I could just use the Speer .45 shotshell capsules for .45 Colt.

[hermosabeach]

Abby normal

In my development of a .45 colt shot shell, I found that the weight of the shot never equals or exceeds the weight of a solid boolit. There is a lot of open space around those little balls, so the weight never comes close.

I verified the same thing with the .45 acp experiments. My "made from .30-06 cases" acp shells are 1.265-1.270" long, and even with the 5.7 gr of Bullseye, the shot weight is around 122 grs-and the BoLee data for that 5.7 gr of BE calls for a 230 gr projectile. I weighed a couple after being questioned about it here.

So in pistol caliber shot shells, the shot weigh is just never going to equal or exceed a solid boolit appropriate for the powder load. Too much free space around the balls.

BULLET WEIGHT
135 GR. PLYCS RNP
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder CFE Pistol

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You might want to look at the hodgdon site. They have 45 acp load data for 120 grain and 135 grain 45 acp loads


You might want to try to a different powder that has a factory load for 120-135 grain 45 acp

[sofbak]

^^^^I tried to explain it my previos post. Simply put, you cannot match powder charge weight to projectile(s) load weight for SHOT in a pistol cartidge. The density of shot is about 40% of the density of a solid projectile.

Thus the conondrum.