Question about 45 colt blow back

[orangeusa]

all my loads - HP38, Titegroup, Trail Boss (very dirty), left smoke trails down the brass.

As.I remember,.Herc 2400 was the cleanest. Unffortunately I couldnt find.it after my first bottle. lol

I have been.out of.loading for 4 years , but thats.gonna.soon change .

[pennstater]

I wonder how the BE-86 does?

How ya doing Mark? BE-86 is still an ongoing work, but, looks damn promising.
I've found a load for my Pietta .45 Colt: 7.2gr Universal/250gr lrnfp bullet.
Very little soot, if any, accurate as the dickens and the gun just likes it. And guess what? With this Universal load, I don't seem to get any leading! Yea!!!

MLC

[SamGoldstein]

OP, 8.0-8.5gr Unique has been a standard for the .45 Colt for a loooong time. Try a slightly tighter crimp; not a lot, slight. It worked for me. I still get a bit of soot, but, not like before. Also, do you have any Universal on hand? If so, get back to me.

MLC

Yes, I do have universal.

[SamGoldstein]

Is this a new development, or have you always seen the soot with that load and gun combo? I have only experienced that with light loads (not expanding the cases and sealing well) and slowish powder. Maybe try a different powder or charge. As already mentioned, Universal works really well in .45 colt, in my experience. Loose cylinder chambers could also contribute to the soot?

With the same load in new brass I get the same result. I think I need to use more powder.

[SamGoldstein]

This is reduced 15%. Light load issues are to be expected with light loads.

And just "cowboy action" loadings.

Nowhere near "Ruger" loadings, albeit OP didn't spec his pistol (or rifle).

If you just want mild loads, I'd go to a faster powder.

Firearm is a Marlin 1894 Cowboy Limited.

[MongooseV8]

Ackley was a fraud? F Guffey is that you?

[pennstater]

Yes, I do have universal.

Look at some published sources for load data regarding Universal in .45 Colt.
I'm using 7.2gr/250gr lrnfp Missouri bullet in a Pietta "1873 Gun Fighter" with 4.75" barrel. A moderate crimp, not heavy. This is a much cleaner load than my 8.0-8.5gr Unique load. Both are accurate, the Universal load just works better/cleaner in said revolver. Hope that helps.

MLC

[ar15barrels]

I reload my 45 Colt rounds. Usually I do 8.0 grains of Unique for a 200gr or 250gr bullet. I've noticed a lot of burnt powder on the casing almost halfway down the brass on one half of the case. Is this because I need to anneal the case mouths? Or is this not enough powder? Too light a bullet? I read that if I anneal the case mouth it reduces the life of the case. I have never annealed any 45 colt case, and I've reloaded them many times. I don't even think pistol brass is normally annealed. I'm using Starline brass. Any help appreciated.

Pressure is too low to seal the case against the chamber so gas gets on the outside of the case.
Increase your powder charge.

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (CIP)
Bullet             : .452, 200, LEE 452-200-SWC
Useable Case Capaci: 28.184 grain H2O = 1.830 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Alliant UNIQUE

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.124% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-11.2   47     7.90    968     416   11100   3422     93.4    0.894
-10.1   48     8.00    978     425   11366   3474     93.8    0.885
-09.0   48     8.10    988     434   11636   3526     94.2    0.876
-07.9   49     8.20    998     442   11909   3578     94.6    0.867
-06.7   50     8.30   1008     451   12186   3629     94.9    0.857
-05.6   50     8.40   1018     460   12467   3680     95.3    0.846
-04.5   51     8.50   1028     469   12752   3730     95.6    0.836
-03.4   51     8.60   1037     478   13040   3780     95.9    0.827
-02.2   52     8.70   1047     487   13333   3829     96.2    0.817
-01.1   53     8.80   1057     496   13629   3878     96.5    0.808  ! Near Maximum !
+00.0   53     8.90   1066     505   13928   3927     96.8    0.799  ! Near Maximum !
+01.1   54     9.00   1076     514   14232   3975     97.0    0.790  ! Near Maximum !
+02.2   54     9.10   1085     523   14540   4022     97.3    0.781  ! Near Maximum !
+03.4   55     9.20   1095     532   14851   4069     97.5    0.773  ! Near Maximum !
+04.5   56     9.30   1104     542   15166   4116     97.7    0.765  ! Near Maximum !
+05.6   56     9.40   1114     551   15485   4162     98.0    0.756  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     53     8.90   1115     552   16093   3949     99.7    0.743  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     53     8.90   1004     448   11781   3753     90.6    0.870

[ar15barrels]

Look at some published sources for load data regarding Universal in .45 Colt.
I'm using 7.2gr/250gr lrnfp Missouri bullet in a Pietta "1873 Gun Fighter" with 4.75" barrel. A moderate crimp, not heavy. This is a much cleaner load than my 8.0-8.5gr Unique load. Both are accurate, the Universal load just works better/cleaner in said revolver.

Not published data, but here is universal in the same conditions as above.

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (CIP)
Bullet             : .452, 200, LEE 452-200-SWC
Useable Case Capaci: 28.184 grain H2O = 1.830 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm
Powder             : Hodgdon Universal

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.25% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-12.5   42     7.00    935     388   10747   3021     98.6    0.920
-11.3   43     7.10    946     397   11031   3064     98.8    0.910
-10.0   43     7.20    956     406   11319   3106     99.0    0.900
-08.8   44     7.30    966     414   11611   3147     99.2    0.891
-07.5   44     7.40    976     423   11907   3188     99.4    0.881
-06.3   45     7.50    986     432   12207   3228     99.5    0.869
-05.0   46     7.60    996     440   12511   3267     99.6    0.857
-03.8   46     7.70   1006     449   12819   3305     99.7    0.846
-02.5   47     7.80   1015     458   13132   3343     99.8    0.836
-01.3   47     7.90   1025     467   13448   3379     99.9    0.826
+00.0   48     8.00   1034     475   13769   3415    100.0    0.815  ! Near Maximum !
+01.3   49     8.10   1044     484   14094   3451    100.0    0.806  ! Near Maximum !
+02.5   49     8.20   1053     493   14423   3485    100.0    0.796  ! Near Maximum !
+03.8   50     8.30   1063     501   14756   3518    100.0    0.787  ! Near Maximum !
+05.0   50     8.40   1072     510   15093   3552    100.0    0.778  ! Near Maximum !
+06.3   51     8.50   1081     519   15435   3585    100.0    0.769  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba     48     8.00   1070     509   15826   3318    100.0    0.761  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba     48     8.00    983     430   11688   3422     97.3    0.886

[sofbak]

^^^Question on these (quickload?) tables above. I thought SAAMI max pressure for .45 colt was 14ksi. But looking at the comments column, the notations there seem to indicate the max presssure is just a little north of 15ksi.

Am I misinterpreting the implication of those notations, or something else?

[ar15barrels]

^^^Question on these (quickload?) tables above. I thought SAAMI max pressure for .45 colt was 14ksi. But looking at the comments column, the notations there seem to indicate the max presssure is just a little north of 15ksi.

Am I misinterpreting the implication of those notations, or something else?

I used the CIP Quickload model which goes over 15.

14 vs 15 is is probably not going to matter in any guns made in the last 60 years.

Look what 25k PSI will do in the strongest modern guns:

Cartridge          : .45 Colt (CIP)
Bullet             : .452, 200, LEE 452-200-SWC
Useable Case Capaci: 28.184 grain H2O = 1.830 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 1.580 inch = 40.13 mm
Barrel Length      : 6.0 inch = 152.4 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 25000 psi, or 172 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 100 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

34 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type          Filling/Loading Ratio  Charge    Charge   Vel. Prop.Burnt P max  P muzz  B_Time
                                      %     Grains    Gramm   fps     %       psi     psi    ms
---------------------------------  -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma R123                          93.3     24.2     1.57    1532    91.1    25000    9273   0.586  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N105                     94.0     19.1     1.24    1451    92.0    25000    7323   0.573  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Enforcer                    90.6     24.0     1.56    1427    74.8    25000    7358   0.581  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 296                     100.0     27.9     1.81    1411    60.3    23877    7535   0.589  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant 2400                        88.8     21.9     1.42    1409    73.5    25000    7075   0.586  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H110                       100.0     27.9     1.81    1403    64.7    23959    7328   0.592  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4100                       92.7     24.9     1.61    1394    69.5    25000    6819   0.581  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon Lil'Gun                    100.0     27.0     1.75    1393    68.2    22943    7659   0.597  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant BLUE DOT                    89.4     18.9     1.23    1391    82.4    25000    6687   0.586  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori 3N38                     85.3     18.1     1.17    1387    87.5    25000    6450   0.585  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[sofbak]

OK. CIP vs. SAAMI. Got it.

[diginit]

That's pretty light. Alliant lists 9.5 gr.

Aside from sooty brass, it's really not an issue though.

This. But you can look into annealing the case heads to make them softer and better seal the chamber. Do it the right way or you will destroy the brass. If heated to red hot for a millisecond and your brass is trashed.

[divingin]

I read that if I anneal the case mouth it reduces the life of the case.

Where did you read that? What was their reasoning?

Annealing reverses the hardening that occurs when brass is worked. Most of it is caused by the stretching and compressing that occurs when firing and resizing/flaring/crimping. If not annealed, the brass gets harder (more brittle, and harder to form), resulting in cracked cases (brittleness) and problems in getting your desired sizing (less malleability.)

That said, most people (that I know anyway) don't anneal pistol brass. It's considered, to at least some degree, a consumable item. Shoot it until it cracks or becomes too much of a problem to deal with, and replace it.

This. But you can look into annealing the case heads to make them softer and better seal the chamber. Do it the right way or you will destroy the brass. If heated to red hot for a millisecond and your brass is trashed.

DO NOT anneal the case heads. They're supposed to be hard. The case mouth (and shoulder on a bottleneck case) is the target for annealing.

As to the red-hot comment, you should read the AMP article on Annealing Under the Microscope. Dispels (or at least refutes) a lot of myths about annealing.

[Cowboy T]

I use Titegroup in .45 Colt. Used properly, Titegroup is a very good powder for this cartridge. But yes, my cases are somewhat sooty after firing the rounds.

We've got to remember that the .45 Colt is a low-pressure round, and with lower pressures, you're going to have soot. But my load, while not a max load, is accurate and shoots well.

So my cases have some soot. So what? As pointed out above, that's what tumbler cleaners are for. Tell you this, it's a heckuva lot cleaner than the black powder .45 Colt rounds were!

Now, my ".45 Colt Magnum" loading, which uses a very healthy charge of 2400 under a 255-gr cast bullet, is very clean. But I estimate the pressure of that loading at somewhere between 30,000 and 35,000 PSI. I am shooting it in a Ruger Super Redhawk 454, so that load is perfectly safe in that revolver.

The point being, the more pressure, the more complete the burn. The less pressure, the less complete the burn.