Load data 40 S&W with universal...barely cycling

[Geofois]

Hey guys,
I asked about 9mm and found running mid to light loads with universal doesn't work and it needs to run on the hotter end so now I loaded some 40 sw at 5.0g with 180g coated lead bullets and it cycled 2/3 of the time. I'll change the primers since I also noticed some light strikes that didn't go off. Wolf spp, maybe those are junk. I'll go back to CCI 500 I think is what I have. Mainly the issue was when I watched it shoot it wouldn't go into full battery. It's a couple mm back and I can force it in with my thumb and shoot it. When I load it with the slide locked back then release it chambers fine and doesn't seem to have a chambering issue so I'm thinking if the charge was just a little light it's not causing the slide to go back all the way therefore not returning with full power. Does that sound logical? I'm going to clean it and up the charge a little and see but wanted to see if the brain trust had experience with Universal. So far I've loaded my 45 acp with it and read it needs to be loaded above hodgdons current max load and seem many have said that's the case with 9mm and maybe 40 sw. Ran smooth and accurate with 6.7g in my 45acp 1911 with Hodgdon max at 6.4g I think with 185g berry's plated swc.

[tabascoz28]

I have the same issue with some cast coated lead I got. The bullet profile was so rounded that I had to load it deeper just to get it to lock into battery. I called the manufacturer and he said you have to load it deep, minimal flaring of the mouth and crimp.... I'll be avoiding very rounded profile tips in the future. My new G19 would not cycle one round of it in the beginning but now it just went through 50 and had a hard time with 1. I've been shooting full metal jacket only for the last 200 rounds, maybe that and loading it to minimal OAL helped reliability. Still, I'd rather get a different bullet.

[Dooder]

Are you chamber checking your ammo? The hang up at the last bit is more an issue with final crimp diameter or bullet alignment. If it was too light then it would short stroke. The blast makes the slide go back, and the spring is what gets it back into battery.

Chamber check the ammo, separate the ones that fall out from the sticky ones and then try them next time you're at the range to get an idea of what your chamber will tolerate.

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[tabascoz28]

From left to right:
115 coated really round tip
115 brass jacketed
115 coated pointier tip
124 grain plated
Only the black one is very sensitive to seating depth and it is .355 consistently. The brass jacket is measuring .354, thickness might also be an issue. Black bullet is from black bullets international.

[Geofois]

That's a good idea. I'm going to chamber check after making a few more. Tabasco did you have the issue with Universal powder also? I put the link of the bullet I'm using. A flat cone or truncated cone I think it was it's called so doesn't seem to be too long. It's kinda stubby but I can try slightly shorter. I have COL at 1.12" and I think I can go 1.125" but I'll keep it shorter.

https://www.brazosprecision.com/40-180gr-Flat-PointBevel-BaseGroove-573ct-0072bullet_p_17.html

[sofbak]

Besides the insurance of a plunk test in your barrel (a good practice), is there a chance your scale could be over-reporting your charge weights?
Given that you seem to need to overcharge across three calibers to get them to function, I might suspect your not really getting the powder weight charges your scale says you are.

[Geofois]

I'm going to use both scales to compare, good idea.

[tabascoz28]

I've only ever used 1 powder with my handguns 45, 9mm, 38/357, Bullseye. I have 2 digital scales and they both measure correctly. I have never had to charge more to get anything to cycle, only jam issues I've had were loading bullets too long, until I started using those black coated rounder bullets. I used to load berry's plated up to 1.125 for 9mm. I guess every gun and chamber is a little different. What model guns? Mine are Walther p99c, CZ p01 and G19.

[Geofois]

I compared the digital scale I normally use with the one I keep at the bench in the garage. Both small not expensive scales. The one I normally use gave me 6.7g and the one in the garage 6.8g. Looks like they are pretty close so if anything the one I normally use is probably causing me to charge .1 more if the other scale is more correct. When I searched there were countless discussions about Universal burning slower and not fully burning unless loaded to the higher end. I'll report back after a new batch. I'll make sure stepped up in charge and some not but both checking the chamber, cleaning the gun(40 not my gun so who knows when it was cleaned). The 45 acp which ran fine today is a Kimber 1911, the 9mm is a 5" XD, the 40 is a Glock 23

[tabascoz28]

Someone using Universal chime in. I think it's the bullet but you won't know until you start changing some variables. My cheap Rock Island 45 has eaten everything, doesn't care.

[croue]

[sofbak]

OK. If your scales are telling the truth, the next adjustment I would try is the OAL of the cartidge.
Try some "ladders" at .010, .015. and .020 inch shorter than what you have been using for your OAL.

[Dooder]

I have tried it before but can't provide any guidance other than there are much much much better powders to use that won't have you chasing demons. They'll burn better, meter better, are more efficient, cost better, less flashy, I guess I can say that I found Universal to burn pretty clean. IMO its really just not a good burn rate for most things. Its too slow for somethings and not slow enough for others. Can burn it up with 357Mag. Or max it out for weak 44Mag and 38-40.

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[croue]

Sounds like universal is a bit of a misleading name then?


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[Geofois]

I just checked the velocity. I recorded high 890s to low 900s. The couple rounds I recorded on the 4" glock was 898-920. Hodgdon load data for the max charge of 5.1 was 1002. I did 5.0 but it seems like I'm 75 fps slower with the same length barrel. Not sure if that changes things a lot but I'll step up the charge .2 and see also. My 5" XD tested some shots at 974, 1006, 978, 965 fps. On avg that is slower than the min charge of 3.8 out of a 4" barrel with universal on the hodgdon site with the 125g lead. Maybe my universal is a slower batch but I agree, probably just a lil slow for small semi auto calibers.

Made 30 rounds to test out. All of them dropped into the chamber and fell right out easily. I noticed if I didn't crimp they hung in there but came out fairly easily but even with mild crimp they fell right out so I should be good to go. I clean the gun also and now it's nice and slick. That might have been a contributing factor.