Results: First hunting load development

[Divernhunter]

Here is something I learned a the SCI convention from a well know bench rest shooter. Do not oil your trigger group or bolt. Take the barreled action out of the stock and remove the bolt. Take old fashion lighter fluid and flush them out good.----I cheat and 1st spray the heck out of them with brake clean spray then blow them dry with compressed air. Then I flush them with lighter fluid.
Let air dry.
Reassemble the rifle. There is enough lube from the lighter fluid to protect the parts. There is also not so much as to collet dirt/grit and such to make the trigger not work well----especially for lighter triggers. There is also not the oil there to freeze up if shooting/hunting in very cold weather yet it is lubed.

I tried it and it works.

[Jusgunn3]

Are you getting any pressure with the 300 wsm?
I ask because my load is 66 grains of H4350 and a 187 grain BIB bullet.
My freebore is very long on my reamer so that could be the difference.

Lynn, I have some ejector marks on the las two groups but they are not too bad. Didn't notice a hard bolt lift until the last group, also not that bad though. I feel like the bolt on this rifle is always pretty sticky in general.

I'm not familiar with the cleaner you're using but in my experience, you need to get all of the copper out of the barrel. Sweets has ammonia but it is very effective. You may need to alternate between a regular solvent for lead and carbon, and a copper solvent. You need to do this no matter what kind of projectiles have been down the barrel.

This is worth a read. One of the customers in the article might have been me.

Thanks Jack, Sounds like I will be getting either Sweets or the foam Wipe-out.

I use Wipe-Out and then Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 and follow that with Butches Bore Shine.
Your m-pro7 would replace the Butches Bore Shine.
You may have to do the Wipe-out and Sweets 7.62 a couple of times if you keep getting signs of fouling.
Most of the time I only use patches and plenty of them. Your rod is a good one. I use Dewey myself.

The Wipe-Out is nice as you shoot it into the barrel and then let it sit to do its work and boy does it work.

I have always been able to get the TTSX bullets to group but I also use some LRX bullets in my 6.5X300W and will probably work up some loads with them in other cartridges.

Use the max load on the Barnes website or book and select 2-3 powders that show the highest FPS. The Barnes data is a bit conservative and I have never seen any pressure problems using the max loads in a number of cartridges. Generally the fastest loads have given the best accuracy. They also give the best terminal performance

I will be picking up some new copper cleaner and clean away using your recommendations. Thanks. I picked up some IMR 4358 so I will give that a shot along with the RL17. I wonder if my pressure signs are due to me not seating the bullets deep enough? I need to chase the lands again I suppose and or seat them a little deeper.

Rules:1) pick a bullet lighter than you would use with a lead core bullet. Barnes act like a lead core bullet 30% heavier. So a 150gr Barnes will act like a 195gr lead core bullet in terminal performance. Use TTSX or LRX as they start opening sooner than TSX and the tips will not fold over like the TSX sometimes do when hitting bone at certain angles
2) Push them as fast as possible for best terminal performance. This goes back to rule1 by using a lighter bullet you can push it faster. They also tend to group better the faster you push thing. I do not know why but they do.
3)Barnes(and Swift ) bullets NEED bullet jump for best accuracy. This also helps you not get pressure spikes like the old X-Bullet. My Weatherby rifles have1/4" jump and still shoot cloverleaf groups. General rule of thumb is to seat them so the top relief groove is just showing. I do have a couple of rifles that do best when the top groove is covered up by the case neck. Never have been able to get too much jump. I have greatly improved groups by seating them deeper than when I did the 1st test loads.
4) Before shooting Barnes bullets--especially in a firearm that has shot regular jacketed bullets- you must really super clean the barrel. Once cleaned you can shoot a lot of Barnes without cleaning. I have a 257W that I shot over 100rounds before deciding to clean and a 7-08 with 250 rounds. IF you shoot some regular bullets after some Barnes then you need to super clean it again before using Barnes for best results.

Here is how I clean a barrel. It sounds long and drawn out but goes rather quickly especially if you do them in groups.
Let us get this out of the way first thing. NO #9 will not to the job! I use to use it so I know. I have been taken to task about it with friends and have proved my point every time. So do not even try posting that it works. I have taken several rifles that friends swore were spotless unsing #9 and then shown them all that was missed.
Ok that is out of the way. Here is what I do. 1) I use the original foaming bore cleaner called Wipe-Out. Then let the firearm set. Use a rod guide in the bolt to prevent the foam getting into the action. 2) Use patches and if real bad repeat. 3) I use Sweets 7.62 or Barnes CR-10 and let it set no more than 10 min. then patches. If a lot of blue/crud then repeat #1 and 2. Not usually needed. 3) follow with Butches Bore Shine/Tetra-Gun/one of the Montana/Shooter Choice or shooters choice and Kroil oil 50/50 products or a host of other solvents. 4) If not shooting soon oil the bore. I use Tetra Gun or Lucas oil usually.
Now for you #9 fans IF you just cannot live without it use it after #3 and before#4

PS__I do not clean my firearms every time I shoot them and it is NOT NEEDED. More firearms have been ruined from improper cleaning than not cleaning. If shoot corrosive ammo the do clean every time but we are talking about Barnes bullet and non-corrosive primers here.

Speaking of improper cleaning IF you use the 3 piece alum cleaning rods Please 1) do not clean your firearm or 2) toss it(or save for emergency use of a stuck case) and buy a good 10 Coated one piece rod or 2) one piece Carbon Fiber rod or 3) one piece SS rod----you get the idea.

I think that pretty much covers it.
This should be a darn sticky as may times as I have been asked to post it

Thanks for the write up!

[Jusgunn3]

One more thing I noticed last night: while trying to remove the bolt for the cleaning I noticed the bolt release was not working, I couldn't get the bolt out. I ended up removing the action from the stock to work on the trigger group. The action screws were pretty loose (about 15 inlbs) and came out very easy. After taking a better look at my groups, a few of them were spread pretty horizontal. I am thinking the loose action screws helped with the not so great groups. I torqued them to 35 front and 25 rear. I will see how it behaves on the next time out and maybe adjust the torque again.

[Divernhunter]

With less bullet jump you will get more pressure signs.
If the action screws are not tight your groups will suffer. Same for scope mounts/rings.
One more thing I learned that can effect groups. Get a thick piece of fishing line --something mono but high test for ocean fish. Hold the bolt down hard and slip the string up from the bottom looped around the bolt on the stack side. If it catches/hangs up but slides by when you release pressure you need to remove some material from the stock. If it is a wood stock reseal where you removed the wood. Now is also a good time to seal up the trigger area and mag well area of the wood.

I checked my rifles and had several that needed adjusted.

Get both Sweets(or Barnes CR-10) and Wipe-Out.

There is no 4358. You must mean IMR4350.

[Jusgunn3]

Great info, thanks! I will do the check with the fishing line. After measuring again, I think I was only .035 off the lands. Going to go .050 and start again. Yes, I meant IMR 4350 dam typos!

[Divernhunter]

^^ You were too close!
Just seat the bullet so the top relief groove is just showing. .080 is not too much and more even works better sometimes. You are wasting a lot of expensive bullet messing around with less than max(Barnes data) loadings and screwing with bullet seating depth. Barnes data is conservative talking to Barnes at the SCI conventions. If seating the bullet so the top groove is just showing does not give you .080 off the land then seat it so the groove is covered by the case. I had to do this with a couple of rifles to get good groups.
I have had a couple of cartridges that did not want to group with Swift and Barnes bullets. Both times the reps told me to seat them deeper and sure enough they shot little groups.

[Jusgunn3]

[Divernhunter]

No your pressures will actually be lower due to the free-bore(jump).
Take the Barnes data and just use the max load.

[Jusgunn3]

Thanks Divernhunter!

[Jusgunn3]

[Divernhunter]

The bigger question is why do you care. Compressed load work very well and as long as you are not over max data there is nothing to worry about. Same goes with non-compressed loads.
Do not over-think it.

[Jusgunn3]

Copy that, thank you!

[Jusgunn3]

Finally got some time again at the range! Both loads shot a little better overall with best groups between 1-1.6 MOA. The SD was 15 for the WSM and 20 for the .308. Is that good enough?