Reloading Rifle Rounds

[divingin]

divingin, I can explain to you why it is impossible to move the shoulder back; that is because you can not explain how you move the shoulder back.

Again, semantics.

So you do not have a clue.

...Says the guy banned from several forums...

[MongooseV8]

I move the shoulder back using precise tensions.

[fguffey]

Again, semantics.

...Says the guy banned from several forums...

I am proud of my effort, all I had to do was agree or kiss up.

The case does not have head space, it is impossible to move the shoulder back with a die that has full case body support and there is a difference between comparators and a tool that checks head space; meaning it is impossible to measure head space with a comparator.

And then there is the story about the firing pin driving the case, powder and bullet forward to the shoulder of the chamber. And I asked how is that possible; I chamber a round into one of my rifles, when I chamber the round I know there is .127" clearance between the shoulder of the case and shoulder of the chamber. For reloaders that is a mind boggling think because they are conditioned to repeat the same old story over and over etc. that my case will suffer case head separation when fired.

The forum should have more pride than to brag abut getting rid of someone that does not agree. No matter what my cases will never develop head space because I use the length of the case to off set the length of the chamber.

F. Guffey

[robert101]

Are you are telling us the case did not conform to the chamber and that it (the case) actually got smaller? Is the case in your gun defying the physics of all other loads fired in all other chambers?

I'm not being mean just wondering if I understand you as to how the case got smaller as you represent. It seems very probable that some 50,000 psi would conform a case to a chamber. I think mind do this, as they measure to be larger after fire forming.

[fguffey]

Is the case in your gun defying the physics of all other loads fired in all other chambers?

I should not have to tell you that is rude.

I should not have to tell anyone on this forum the die will not tighten when loose. If his lock nut got loose the die will only back out.

F. Guffey

[Abenaki]

I chambered a round, and then closed the bolt then pulled the trigger. The round I chambered was .127" shorter from the shoulder of the case to the case head than the chamber; meaning, the chamber was .127" longer than the case when measured from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face.

And then I ejected the case, after I examined the case I decided my case did not stretch, that case got shorter. So I chambered another round, aimed and pulled the trigger, same thing; the case did not stretch between the case head and case body.

Another rifle, I chambered a minimum length/full length round into 'another rifle; I pulled the trigger. the case got longer from the shoulder of the case to the case head by .016". The case got shorter from the end of the neck to the case head; anyhow the case did not stretch.


F. Guffey

Take care
Abenaki

[Fjold]

I got into reloading about a year ago, and have reloaded a few different pistol rounds, but now i am wanting to start reloading my rifle rounds. Is there any major differences? I can't imagine there will be, but thought i would check with you all just to see if you know of anything i might run into. What powder do you guy like for rifle loads?

I'll be reloading 30-06 for a Marlin XL7. Any suggestions on what grain and load for this rifle specifically would be appretiated.

The very best advice for reloading is to never read anything posted by fguffey

[bsumoba]

I should not have to tell you that is rude.

I should not have to tell anyone on this forum the die will not tighten when loose. If his lock nut got loose the die will only back out.

F. Guffey

A locking nut, if loose, will allow the nut to screw down AND up. It just depends on how it was handled

Man, I sometimes really try to read your posts objectively, but it is impossible to follow and what you say is truly mind boggling.

0.127" clearance between the shoulder chamber and case shoulder??? I would really like to see a cutaway of that, because I have seen cutaways of chambers and there isnt more than a few thou clearance in a properly sized case.

[sofbak]

For all of yoy trying to crack the gufster-code/guffey speak ...it's a lost cause.

Don't try to find logic or discernable info there.

[Epaphroditus]

Fguffey is right and all the reloading manuals used daily by 1000's of reloaders are wrong and we all died. The End.

[MongooseV8]

"and we all died. The End."

Omg that part got me haha

[fguffey]

0.127" clearance between the shoulder chamber and case shoulder??? I would really like to see a cutaway of that, because I have seen cutaways of chambers and there isnt more than a few thou clearance in a properly sized case.

Look around you at all the snarky responses, the snarky responders did not know enough about my statement to ask a question.

And I want to thank you for your professional behavior, A few reloaders that conduct themselves in a professional behavier because of their self pride keeps this forum from going totally socially difunctional.

To your question and or curiosity:

Hatcher moved the shoulder forward .065" thinking he had case head separation figured out; he chambered a minimum length/full length sized case in his 'wildcat' and pulled the trigger. His case did not suffer case head separation, there were things he could have done that would have prevented reloaders getting lost in the dark; I could say his help in the old days would have helped the old guys but he was not dealing with the reloaders I am dealing with.

I have an 8mm/06 chamber reamer I have chambered three of my 8mm57s to 8mm/06s. The difference in length from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face of the 8mm06 chamber is .127" longer than the distance to from the shoulder to the bolt face on an 8mm57.

Hatcher could have done the same thing but I am sure someone told him it would reflect on the Army if he did. After firing the 8mm57 in the 8mm06 I eject a case with a very short neck. The case got shorter from the end of the neck to the case head but longer from the shoulder/datum to the case head; what does that mean? It means the case did not stretch, my original shoulder did not move and the shoulder I finished with was a new shoulder. Part of the neck became part of the shoulder and part of the shoulder became part of the case body.

It happened again with Major Culver, he went to a match, he was supposed to be issued 30/06 ammo, instead he was issued 308W ammo, when he ejected his fired case they were ejected with the hint of a shoulder.

Reloaders spend a lot of time talking about head space and they do not like it when I try to help them.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

Hatcher could have explained the sequence of events that started with pulling the trigger.

On my 8mm06 cases: The long case body and very short neck proved by cases did not stretch between the case head and case body. It also proved the firing pin did not hit my primer and drive the case, bullet and powder forward to the shoulder of the chamber. But we all know this is a reloading forum and everyone knows what happens when the trigger is pulled

F. Guffey

[ar15barrels]

0.127" clearance between the shoulder chamber and case shoulder???
I would really like to see a cutaway of that, because I have seen cutaways of chambers and there isnt more than a few thou clearance in a properly sized case.

The case will headspace on the extractor when you have extremely long headspace in a controlled feed action like Hatcher was working with.
This will let the case shoulder form to the chamber as is commonly done on wildcats.
This is usually combined with breech seating the bullets to keep the case back against the breech.

Ackley did the same experiments as Hatcher but the experiments were NOT designed to prove that cases do not slide forward in a chamber to hit the shoulder because there is normally only a few thousandths headspace but MORE extractor clearance.

I can dig out my Ackley book and scan the page if you like.
Guffey will likely tell us that Hatcher and Ackley did not know what they were doing.

[J-cat]

Hatcher could have explained the sequence of events that started with pulling the trigger.

On my 8mm06 cases: The long case body and very short neck proved by cases did not stretch between the case head and case body. It also proved the firing pin did not hit my primer and drive the case, bullet and powder forward to the shoulder of the chamber. But we all know this is a reloading forum and everyone knows what happens when the trigger is pulled

F. Guffey