Question on Annealing

[hundy]

I have been reloading since the 90's and never even thought about annealing rifle brass. Now that I find myself reloading more and even more rifle rounds, I have to wonder if its worth it? As far as rifle rounds I reload 5.56/223 the most, but I also reload 308, 30-06 and 30-40Krag.

My first question is: Is it worth annealing the larger rifle calibers? I can see maybe 223, but 30-06?

Final question what is a good affordable annealing machine to start with?

Thank you,

Jay

[baih777]

I anneal 223, 308, 6.5 creedmoor, 300 win.
Every 3 or 4 cycles of brass.

You will notice right away. And you will see how it affects your bullet seating.

Try 20 pieces of 308 or 30-06.
Then decide if it's for you.

[kcheung2]

Post #2 in this concurrent thread is a good response.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1586394

I don't bother because most of my brass is 223, 308, & 30-06 and it's just so abundant that there's no point in trying to extend the life of brass that can be so cheaply replaced.

I could see it perhaps making sense for .303 British or something similar, but then again I shoot that so infrequently that unless my consumption doubles or triples, it still makes more sense in my case to buy new brass when the need arises.

[MarikinaMan]

I only anneal my match grade reloads, because I have a limited number of match quality same lot brass. I catch them with a brass catcher and anneal every 3-4 firings.

I am cool with the deep socket and blow torch method as it takes 3-4 seconds each and I only reload match rounds 100 or less at a time.

If you are after quality annealing, the salt bath method seems to be the way to go for well under 200 bucks. It still takes 3-5 seconds each though.

[sunnysmarine]

I like my induction annealer, bought it from a guy who makes them in his garage 180.00 then, no flame no hotter than hell sockets that don't look hot no hot liquid, Is why I wanted it and thought it would work indoors safely, it does work safer but the cases still smoke, cough sputter back to the garage. Only problem is it works to good makes you use it a lot more

[MarikinaMan]

I like my induction annealer, bought it from a guy who makes them in his garage 180.00 then, no flame no hotter than hell sockets that don't look hot no hot liquid, Is why I wanted it and thought it would work indoors safely, it does work safer but the cases still smoke, cough sputter back to the garage. Only problem is it works to good makes you use it a lot more

Can you share the maker?

[sunnysmarine]

as soon as my email list is available I will, some @$%&* note page can not be displayed

[RickD427]

Can you share the maker?

This probably isn't the one referred to, but they do make a very good induction annealing machine. This one has the added benefit of having a diagnostic program that will test your brass to define the proper annealing characteristics. It's a little pricier than the one referred to, but worth taking a look at: https://www.ampannealing.com/

Until recently, this machine was available from Brownell's. I'm not sure what prompted them to drop it from their line-up, but would want to find out before purchasing one.

It's made in New Zealand. I spoke with the manufacturer's rep a few months ago. He was quite knowlegable about the product, but we had a bit of a language barrier that made it hard to get a lot of detail.

[67Cuda]

Here's one I have. Made it when I had time to kill.

[mrbigsteel]

If you are after quality annealing, the salt bath method seems to be the way to go for well under 200 bucks. It still takes 3-5 seconds each though.

Before going the salt-bath route, here is an article that casts doubt on whether that method works or not. It's written by a company that makes a competing annealing product, but it appears to be very scientific in its approach. For what it's worth.

https://www.ampannealing.com/articles/52/salt-bath-annealing--does-it-work-/

[sunnysmarine]

This is the one I had made for me it is rather simple I know, But I just had to open the box and use it..... so.... I have asked for his video so I will post it later. The selling point of this system for me was I can pick up a 308 case anneal it and then a 223 and then a 45-70 with out having to set the annealer each time to another case, You just watch and count until you get the result you are looking for then after the trial case you just count, I hold large enough cases with my fingers little cases with a cotton glove Tiny cases I made a holder, Just DONT admire the anneal to long or you will $%&*& burn your self
The coil heats the case in seconds most cases about 3 seconds set it down quick the heat will transfer through the rest of the case SOON. I use a thick steel plate to set the brass on to cool works great.

Pics, of mine the coil is water cooled hence the jar amazing how quick that jar of water heats up, This annealer has annealed THOUSANDS of cases

[JackEllis]

I am the author of a post in the parallel thread mentioned in post 3 above. In my opinion, annealing isn't necessary or cost effective for most rifle shooters.

I did spend some time researching annealers at one point. I also read the Ampannealing critique of the salt bath method and I think the most critical takeaway is, you can get a color change that suggests the case is properly annealed but there's really no way to know whether the microstructure of the brass is restored to something approximating original condition unless you do the tests they have done.

In my mind the most important attributes of an annealing machine are:

1) Only those parts of the case that need to be annealed get treated, reaching the right temperature for the right amount of time.

2) The process has to be as perfectly repeatable as possible, meaning the same length of the case to the same temperature for the same amount of time. It also has to be as idiot-proof foolproof as possible since a case that is over annealed can be dangerous.

For these reasons, it seems to me that only the induction annealers fit the bill, and then only if the time and temperature can be calibrated properly.

I don't think the annealers that use a propane torch are repeatable enough. I wouldn't have a salt bath annealer in my home or in my shop because I can't see a way to contain the mess or the damage it might do if the container broke or tipped.

I can't justify the additional time it takes to anneal and I certainly can't justify the cost of an annealing machine for the calibers I load with the brass I use and the kind of shooting I do.

Whether annealing makes sense for YOU is something YOU have to decide. I'm not saying YOU should or YOU shouldn't. All I'm doing is laying out my thought process. As the old cliche goes, YMMV!!!

[67Cuda]

All I'm doing is laying out my thought process. As the old cliche goes, YMMV!!!

What you've laid out make no sense to me.

You basically say, don't anneal ever because you can't validate the process, or you like one process more than another, but you can't validate the one you like either.

Over annealing can be dangerous, sure. But I don't know if I've ever seen a post on CalGuns where that has actually happened.

I guess for some people, the sky is falling.

[sunnysmarine]

this is what could be found right now I will look for the original videos, his email address is at the bottom

https://vimeo.com/279384452

https://vimeo.com/382987020

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/5931089822

jason_leiker@yahoo.com

[JackEllis]

What you've laid out make no sense to me.

You basically say, don't anneal ever because you can't validate the process, or you like one process more than another, but you can't validate the one you like either.

Over annealing can be dangerous, sure. But I've don't know if I've ever seen a post on CalGuns where that has actually happened.

I guess for some people, the sky is falling.

I'm sorry you interpreted my post the way you did because it wasn't my intention to tell people what to do or to suggest that no one should ever anneal.

If I was going to anneal, I'd get the Amp Annealing machine or something like it where the developers have figured out temperature and time and where the process is consistent. No guess work and few opportunities to screw it up. Maybe I'm influenced by an anecdote told by a materials professor when I was in college, where the timer for a process to heat treat an airplane part was broken so the operator guessed at the right amount of time. That error cost some people their lives when the part failed in flight.

I don't like the other processes because there's no way to know whether they do what they're supposed to and generally speaking, I don't think they're consistent enough to make it worth the time and expense.

I didn't say don't ever anneal. What I said in the other thread was, annealing makes sense if you just want to, or if you shoot expensive brass, or if you shoot brass that's hard to find, or if you shoot competitively.

When I first looked into this, it was because I had the impression it might help improve the consistency of my hand loads. After doing the research, I determined it wasn't going to make a meaningful difference, if it made any difference at all, for the kinds of shooting I do, and therefore it wasn't worth spending money on.