Case head separated - damaged rifle!

[Capt.Dunsel]

How well did you clean the chamber after shooting 38 spl in that 357 mag chamber ? You ever read or hear about that carbon ring , lead build up , ahead of the 38 spl case mouth , but behind the 357 mag case mouth ?

Looks to me like that could have been a wee bit of your problem .

[fguffey]

Default Case head separated - damaged rifle!

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Hi,

TL;DR: case got separated, damaged rifle, rifle manufacturer blames ammo, ammo manufacturer blames rifle

A 357 mag factory reload (once fired) got separated in my lever action rifle. The rifle fired as normal, I hit the steel target at 100 yards, but the action was locked afterward and wouldn’t open. I field stripped the rifle, but still couldn’t open the action. I brought it to a gun smith, who after some time was able to push the action open by removing half of the stuck case with a dowel.

Case head separation

My cases do not have head space; even if the manufacturer of components and reloading equipment claim the case has head space, it doesn't.

Here is what happened, the case locked to the chamber when fired, the case did not suffer case head separation. The case came apart when the smith hammered the bolt open; The rear of the case separated from the front of the case.

Blame any and all, it is a bad habit to shoot long and short cases in a chamber.

F. Guffey

[ar15barrels]

it is a bad habit to shoot long and short cases in a chamber.

...WITHOUT cleaning the chamber well after shooting the short cases.

[Lancevance]

How well did you clean the chamber after shooting 38 spl in that 357 mag chamber ? You ever read or hear about that carbon ring , lead build up , ahead of the 38 spl case mouth , but behind the 357 mag case mouth ?

Looks to me like that could have been a wee bit of your problem .

[Lancevance]

Case head separation

My cases do not have head space; even if the manufacturer of components and reloading equipment claim the case has head space, it doesn't.

Here is what happened, the case locked to the chamber when fired, the case did not suffer case head separation. The case came apart when the smith hammered the bolt open; The rear of the case separated from the front of the case.

Blame any and all, it is a bad habit to shoot long and short cases in a chamber.

F. Guffey

Then why was the case halfway up the barrel?

[ar15barrels]

Then why was the case halfway up the barrel?

If the case was half way up the barrel, that is the work of the smith.
It did not go there on it's own or while the rifle was being fired.

[pacrat]

Then why was the case halfway up the barrel?

If the case was half way up the barrel, that is the work of the smith.
It did not go there on it's own or while the rifle was being fired.

^^^I CONCUR^^^

Based solely on what OP described;

I brought it to a gun smith, who after some time was able to push the action open by removing half of the stuck case with a dowel.

However, the case head has expanded and is stuck in the rifling in the barrel. The gun smith says the rifle experienced tremendous pressure, and the case has damaged the barrel, and would need be sent back to the manufacturer.

OP experienced a case separation. Chit Happens. But IMHO the "person" he paid to resolve the issue was not a "GUNSMITH". He was a guy with a stick and a hammer. That calls himself a "gunsmith".

What is stuck in the rifle's bore. Is described as a short thin brass cylinder. That is the forward section of the fired case. If the over sized brush trick doesn't work. Take it to a real gunsmith.

BTW, in the pic, the case head shows no obvious sign of expanding.

[fguffey]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
If the case was half way up the barrel, that is the work of the smith.
It did not go there on it's own or while the rifle was being fired.

If only half of the case was in the chamber the case would have been rendered scrap. If half of the case is still in the chamber and the back half(?) of the case was driven out by the smith the complete case was in the chamber. as the other member said the firing pin can not hit the primer if the bolt is not closed, nothing personal, but that is the way it is.

F. Guffey

[sofbak]

^^^^
1. If the head-half of the case was driven out by a smith, how does one explain the loose primer?

2. How could anyone manage to move the front half of the case (basically a thin-walled brass cylinder) "halfway down the barrel"? Especially in a lever gun where chamber-end access is limited.

[JagerDog]

I'm curious what would happen if the bullet was effectively welded to the case.

[MongooseV8]

If only half of the case was in the chamber the case would have been rendered scrap. If half of the case is still in the chamber and the back half(?) of the case was driven out by the smith the complete case was in the chamber. as the other member said the firing pin can not hit the primer if the bolt is not closed, nothing personal, but that is the way it is.

F. Guffey

This was clearly caused by too many tensions.

[fguffey]

I'm curious what would happen if the bullet was effectively welded to the case.

My cases have bullet hold, my cases do not have neck tension. Bullet hold is measured in pounds; there is a claim the army had bullets being held in the neck of 308W cases. They claimed the bullet hold was 500 pounds+

They claimed the bullets were cold welded. The army did not suffer case neck separation meaning the bullet that was cold welded to the neck did not pull the neck off of the case when the bullet left.

So? is it a possibility the high pressure in the case expanded the neck so fast the neck separated from the bullet? Time and distance are factors

A smith/reloaders/shooter collector was a member on another forum, he fired 4 rounds before he noticed his ejected cases did not have necks. So he called posted a question on the forum. I am never surprised at how silly reloaders can get when they do not know the answer.

About a month ago I had some 7mm57 ammo that had 45 pounds of bullet hold; it was about that time an Internet reloader made the claim too much 'TENSION? was dangerous because it increased pressure.

So I thought about increasing bullet hold from 45 pounds to over 100 pounds. I increased the bullet hold to the point my Hornady cam lock bullet holder would not pull the bullets, And then I went to the RCBS 'type' collet puller; again no luck at pulling the bullets.

I dug out a press that I could hammer on the handle, I then got a vise grip plyers what has a leaver lock design and started pulling the bullets. That method destroyed the bullets but did not hurt the case; I know, Internet reloaders believe pulling the neck expander ball through the neck when lowering the ram increases the length of the case I do not believe there is an Internet reloader that can measure before and again after.

I sized the cases again (because I increased the bullet hold from 45 pounds to over 100 pounds; wondering what would happen? 5 shots, no loss of necks and accuracy did not suffer. Accuracy? 5 shots in one hole out of a hunting rifle. Three witnesses, one of the witnesses was doing the shooting.

Tools for increasing bullet hold; I doubt anyone knows how to increase bullet hold and then there is a very good chance no one has access to the tools.

F. Guffey

[LynnJr]

And then there was the time the three witnesses Larry ,Curly and Moe had too much bullet hold and saw a target with a single hole.
One shot hit the target the other four missed it completely.

[Fjold]

Did we merge two threads? Are we allowing stupid to spread?

[J-cat]

My cases have bullet hold, my cases do not have neck tension. Bullet hold is measured in pounds; there is a claim the army had bullets being held in the neck of 308W cases. They claimed the bullet hold was 500 pounds+

They claimed the bullets were cold welded. The army did not suffer case neck separation meaning the bullet that was cold welded to the neck did not pull the neck off of the case when the bullet left.

So? is it a possibility the high pressure in the case expanded the neck so fast the neck separated from the bullet? Time and distance are factors

A smith/reloaders/shooter collector was a member on another forum, he fired 4 rounds before he noticed his ejected cases did not have necks. So he called posted a question on the forum. I am never surprised at how silly reloaders can get when they do not know the answer.

About a month ago I had some 7mm57 ammo that had 45 pounds of bullet hold; it was about that time an Internet reloader made the claim too much 'TENSION? was dangerous because it increased pressure.

So I thought about increasing bullet hold from 45 pounds to over 100 pounds. I increased the bullet hold to the point my Hornady cam lock bullet holder would not pull the bullets, And then I went to the RCBS 'type' collet puller; again no luck at pulling the bullets.

I dug out a press that I could hammer on the handle, I then got a vise grip plyers what has a leaver lock design and started pulling the bullets. That method destroyed the bullets but did not hurt the case; I know, Internet reloaders believe pulling the neck expander ball through the neck when lowering the ram increases the length of the case I do not believe there is an Internet reloader that can measure before and again after.

I sized the cases again (because I increased the bullet hold from 45 pounds to over 100 pounds; wondering what would happen? 5 shots, no loss of necks and accuracy did not suffer. Accuracy? 5 shots in one hole out of a hunting rifle. Three witnesses, one of the witnesses was doing the shooting.

Tools for increasing bullet hold; I doubt anyone knows how to increase bullet hold and then there is a very good chance no one has access to the tools.

F. Guffey

The claim that too much neck tension increases pressure has been around a lot longer than a month.