Reloading scale

[sdnative13]

For several years now I have been using the Frankford Arsenal DS 750 scale. It has served its purpose but now that I am trying to get more accuracy out of my loads, its time to upgrade. I was favoring the idea of getting a automatic powder dispenser but after some research I have read that they measure to +/- .1 grain. Being ignorant I wonder how much that will effect overall accuracy. I started doing more research and came across this setup: https://youtu.be/EZ6RuUxugiw

It claims to be accurate down to +/- .02 grains. Only problem is the setup cost $900.

My question is, is a +/- .1 gain with a rcbs chargemaster 1500 for example going to affect accuracy that much to justify the $900 price tag. The rcbs retails for $325-400 depending on retailer.

[flustercuck]

The A&D FX-120i rocks. I picked one up and haven't looked back. You don't have to go the full automated route with the auto throw and trickler. If you use the coupon code on the ce-products site, it'll knock the scale down to a more reasonable price:
A&D FX-120i Scale 122g x 0.001g

[longrange1]

how much ammo do you load/shoot a week?
what type of shooting do you do?
what is your accuracy expectations?
what rifle and caliber are you shooting?

[sdnative13]

Fluster: when you say more reasonable what are you talking about. Just trying not to set up another account just to see the discounted price.

[sdnative13]

Longrange: because of very limited time I really do not shoot a lot. Much of the reason is the time it takes to hand weigh each load. This is my whole reason for looking into an autocharge or chargemaster.

[Animal.]

You dont have a powder measurer? Depending on how accurate of loads you are looking for the powder measuring can be very fast. It will definately be faster than a chargemaster. For my plinking rounds I get it set where I want and just throw all the charges Im loading very quick. For my precision rounds I throw the charge a little below desired and trickle up the last bit to make sure I am on every time.

[JackEllis]

Rifle shooter here. I use a beam scale to measure charges with occasional cross checks on an electronic scale. I do most of my loading while there's snow on the ground and typically do 100 cartridges a day. Charges are typically within +-.01 grain and for shots under 300 yards, that's good enough for me right now.

Maybe I'm wrong about this but based on the reading I've done, a precision setup for throwing powder is not necessarily going to speed things up that much because the machine still has to trickle powder and you still have to wait on it. So maybe a question some of the others can answer is, how many cases per hour can you do with a setup that gets charge eight variations down to .02 grains?

It would also help us help you if we had answers to the questions Longrange1 posed.

[Animal.]

I use a beam scale also with occasional cross checks on a electronic scale. When I am doing my precision loads for 600+ yard shots, it takes some time. I do batches of 50 and I would say it takes close to a hour to do them all.
That being just the powder drops not a complete cartridge. But I am not going for speed and trying to get them done as fast as possible with these reloads. I am looking for consistency and accuracy. Now with some 223 plinking rounds I can get 50 done in a matter of minutes with checking every 10th round and only getting slight variances in charges, which I dont mind on these.

I think hearing what exactly OP is looking to accomplish with his reloads would help. Is he looking to just make as much as possible as fast as he can, so he can just go fire off a bunch of rounds when plinking. Or is he looking to do some load development and get the best reload for his rifle as possible.

[Animal.]

It would also help us help you if we had answers to the questions Longrange1 posed.

Oh I didnt read this part of your post well enough I guess. What jack said, we need more info.

[sdnative13]

I am not looking for plinking rounds. For that everything is done on a progressive press. I am looking at loading the most accurate bullet i can. Currently I shoot a lot of .223 out to 200 looking for as small a group as possible. I shoot that more due to cost and low recoil. I also shoot a fair amount of 30-06 out to 400yds. Again shooting for accuracy and tight groupings. I am going to be picking up a 6.5 cm this year looking to expand my distance.

Honestly when i came across the video I posted in thought it looked like the best of two worlds: speed and accuracy. I don't have a lot of time to reload and shoot. I would rather spend more time shooting than reloading thus my original question.

[JackEllis]

This isn't going to directly address your question but it might provide some insight.

A .2 grain tolerance (plus or minus 0.1 grains) on your powder charges for .223 is equal to a bit less than 1% of the total charge weight. Let's assume for the moment that muzzle velocity changes in proportion to the change in charge weight. On that basis, the velocity of a 50 grain VMAX bullet exiting the muzzle at 3300 FPS could vary by as much as about 33 FPS (everything else being equal) up or down if one charge is .1 grain higher and another is .1 grain lower.

I used the ballistic calculator at Gundata.org to see how much the POI would change at 200 yards for a 1% and 3% increase in MV using the Fiocchi VMAX 50 grain factory .223 load data with a 100 yard zero. Not perfect, but it provides some indication of the results you might expect.

For a 3% increase in MV POI shifts down by about .25 inches.

For a 1% increase in MV, the POI shifts down by .105 inches.

Same experiment with Hornady 150 grain SSTs (high BC bullet) for a .30-06 where nominal MV is 2910 FPS. A +-.1 grain deviation in powder charge in this case is equal to a .4% maximum deviation based on a 50 grain powder charge.

For a 3% increase in MV, POI shifts ~.265 inches at 200, ~.89 inches at 300, and ~1.94 inches at 400 yards, but a 3% deviation in powder charge is 1.5 grains or more

For a 1% increase in MV, POI shifts ~.08 inches at 200, ~.30 inches at 300, and ~.66 inches at 400 yards, but a 1% deviation in powder charge is 0.5 grains or more

For a 0.4% increase in MV (12 FPS), POI shifts ~.023 inches at 200, ~.095 inches at 300, and ~.25 inches at 400 yards

I want my powder charges to be as consistent as possible but these numbers convinced me that I don't need a super accurate scale for the kinds of shooting I do. Moreover there are a bunch of other variables that can affect consistency like neck tension, case volume, bullet weight and wind drift that could have the same order-of-magnitude impacts at ranges up to 400.

If you have the money to spend, then by all means buy the more expensive powder throwing system that has a finer resolution, but if money is an object, then perhaps a less expensive system that can consistently throw charges to within 0.1% is the better cost/benefit tradeoff.

[Rizzo]

FWIW, I use this scale:

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-GEMINI-20-Portable-MilliGram/dp/B0012TDNAM?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B0012TDNAM

20g x 0.001g (capacity / accuracy) which equates to .01 grain accuracy.
For load development I like the .01 grain accuracy rather that a .1 grain accuracy, especially for low powder loads around 4.0 grains.
It also comes with 2-10 gram calibration weights.

I've used this scale for a couple of years now without issues.

[sdnative13]

I definitely appreciate the time you took to explain that. It totally makes sense. After your explanation I would say I'd be ok with either the autocharge or chargemaster.

[JagerDog]

I drop a grain or so short from my basic powder measure, then trickle onto a beam scale for non range fodder.

If 0.1 grain significantly affects your grouping then I'd say you aren't really in a happy place for your rifle. Temp and other things you aren't controlling would be more radical.

Even just moisture content of your powder will affect actual weights.

[Ramsh00ter]

I use a Chargemaster for 90% of my loading. Works great! Prior to that I had one of the early Lyman combos
It was also, just slower.

The RCBS has few nice feathers over the Lyman. My favorite is when you place the pan back on the pad, it starts dispensing pretty quick. With the exception of large charges, it is done about the same time I am done seating the last round.

I have checked it many times against a RCBS 304 scale, always very accurate.