6.5 Creed Question

[longrange1]

so your saying your bullets in the magpul mags are 0.070 or seventy thousands off the lands? if so thats a big part of your issue here...the 140g ELDMs like to be a little closer to the lands...they shot best for me(not in a 65CM)at .010 to .035 off any farther off the groups opened and numbers were high.

with all of the loads you shot theres none really worth chasing IMHO...your lowest ES was 19fps but the problem is the one before it was 33fps and the group was over 1"...your highest ES was 68fps which at 1000yds would put you about 10" higher than the lowest ES round you shot...if you were shooting a 20" target at 1000yds that would most likely mean a miss.

there are a lot of other things that could be causing the high numbers but id suggest you start with mags(or single feed)and get closer to the lands...id also suggest you start at .020-.025 off the lands if that dont help(but im pretty sure it will)then you can start looking at other causes.

[NorCalFocus]

#1 do not go chasing speed over accuracy. You can't miss the target fast enough. Even at your lowest speeds your going plenty fast enough to reach 1000 yards with a 6.5CM. Guys that shoot PRS matches will chase speed to try and flatten their bullets path out. The flater it is, the less likely you are to miss a target on a bad call.

#2 longrange is right about the distance to the lands. You need to get that sorted out before you can really look at your numbers.

#3 what are you looking for in your method of load development? Your shooting groups, with SD, and speeds, and trying to process all this info how? Think about what you want to achieve, then go through the process that gets you to that end.

With that being said, I do see a flat spot or node in your H-4350 loads. See how the 41.5 and 41.8 all came out to about the same speeds and similar SD, that is a pressure node. Its narrow, but that the way factory barrels are.

[NorCalFocus]

Using just your average speeds, I went ahead and plugged your info into a graph. See how the two low end charges are the only flat spot on the graph? Thats a pressure node. Going strickly off what you've posted so far, that is where I'd focus going forward. However, I still think more testing with less jump to the lands, will yield better info for us to work off of.

[Tommy Gun]

Ya seems 41.5 in both powders seem like the recipe to pursue. Going to size it to single load but will just have to buy the correct mags for precision. Wish Ruger would have just included Magpul AI mags if they had some distribution deal with them.

Like I said I was shooting from the bench with no sled just myself and the group's were still decent. I'll work up some more loads and head out next week.

Question, will fire formed brass drastically change everything over new neck sized only brass??

[longrange1]

it depends on your chamber and how you size your brass but normally it will not be a drastic change but it will be a change most times for the better.

also do you shoot from a bench often? or is that how you plan to shoot this rifle?

i ask because if your going to shoot prone most of the time then thats how you should be shooting your load development and doing most of your practice.

ive always thought shooting off a bench is easy...i built a bench and have shot off it 3 times now and have a whole new respect for the bench guys...its not as easy as it looks.

[Tommy Gun]

I'm down to my last 20 new brass which just neck sizes because it's slim in the full resize die. The fire formed obviously wants to full size. The Hornady die set allows to move the neck and deprime rod down to bypass any resize so going to do that for the next round of loads.

Found some Ruger AI mags for a good price.

[NorCalFocus]

[longrange1]

Also I never do load workup on non fire formed brass. Just a habit I won’t get into.

I do....new barrel Saturday the 28th of April....break in and load development on Sunday the 29th

The bench I built...



1-6 is break in and checking velocities
7-12 is 5 shot groups...I normally do 3 shot groups but I wanted to get a few rounds through this barrel

I went with #12...I’m one of the guys that will take a little looser load for a little more speed

i should also add here that this was the 3rd time ive ever shot off a bench and these groups may look sad to some but i can tell you had i been prone these would have all been in the dots...i could call the flyers because i was driving that gun like id been drinking all night LOL!!



That’s #12 out of virgin brass...



So I took this load in virgin brass and shot 2 matches last weekend...the 5th and the 6th.

missed 3rd place by 2 point Saturday with a new barrel new contour and a new bullet with no dopes.

Same load in the match Sunday and I took 3rd.

The barrel has sped up from 2930 to 2960 so once I’m done firing all 300 pcs of brass I’ll drop my charge weight down .2g and run it...I’ll chrony it because I want to be at 2940 but I doubt anything else will need to be adjusted as it shot lights out both matches.

I just never see huge changes from new to fired but then I have my own reamers.



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[rmswins]

IMR 4451.

Accurate shooter had a quick look at the temp stability of IMR 4451 vs H4350. They found IMR 4451 offered competitive temp stability. The article showed promise.

I picked up some IMR 4451 and H4350 but haven't had time to test it myself out of a Tikka T3X.

[Tommy Gun]

Ya I'm glad there are options depending on availability. Finally picked up some Ruger AI Mags so now I'll play with seating depth. I'll start .015, .020 and .025 off lands and head out in weeks. Need to reup on 6.5 Creed.

All this has made me rethink all reloading, even for my gas guns. Bought a modified case for my .308s (S&W MP10 and Tikka T3 light) As well as my MP15s .223. Just to see what it could be to what I had been loading it to. Found my .308s a little hot which I hope is seating depth.

[LWP]

Accurate shooter had a quick look at the temp stability of IMR 4451 vs H4350. They found IMR 4451 offered competitive temp stability. The article showed promise.

I picked up some IMR 4451 and H4350 but haven't had time to test it myself out of a Tikka T3X.

I've heard that RL 16 has a good temp stability. It's supposed to give a little more speed than H-4350, but I have not tried it yet. It's next on the list to try.

[LWP]

.

Found some Ruger AI mags for a good price.

Do you mean Magpul AI mags ?

[Tommy Gun]

No Ruger has their own AI length mags to fit the RPR. 2.85 internal max. Were $30 on Brownells.

[Tommy Gun]

https://www.brownells.com/magazines/rifle-magazines/magazines/ai-style-polymer-magazines-30-caliber-prod97709.aspx

[Tommy Gun]

Update.....

....Today headed out to test seating depths and I think I found my recipe.

140gr Hornady ELF
Hornady Brass
CCI LRP
41.5gr H4350
.03 off lands

Shot a 10rd group and had about 1moa group with my novice shooting skill. .02 and .025 were not consistent but again could be my skill level but .03 were impressive.