BlackTalon question...

[ZRX61]

What would a box of 20 .44Mag B/Ts be worth? Don't know if I want to hold on to them or not....
I sold a box of 9mm B/T's yesterday for $30 & the guy acted like he got a bargain...

[Darklyte27]

its probably more of a collectors item...

Federal HSTs, Speer Gold dots etc kick *** like Bruce Lee while black talons are old skool technology.

[ZRX61]

Yup, that was my thinking... still keeping my 100 .40 B/T's tho. They can sit at the back of the safe

[AndrewMendez]

I am sure they are better then hollowpoints we have today, thus why they where banned!

[awheelman357]

black talon were never banned wichester pulled the line due to the bad rap they were getting but they were never banned. i have over 500 rounds of 9mm

[nick]

I am sure they are better then hollowpoints we have today, thus why they where banned!

They were never banned. They were "frowned upon" becuse of the name, evil-looking box, and the evil-looking black bullet. Today's Winchester Ranger SXT and T are the improved versions of Black Talons, but since they're called Ranger (hint at law enforcement, thus making them good puppy-protecting rounds), come in a tan box with the sheriff-like badge on them, and looklike regular rounds, they're kosher.

[SmokinMr2]

Wow I remember that. News was calling them "Black Felon"...

I still have some left as well.

Found an interesting article copied from another forum from 2002:

Winchester Black Talon Revisited

There appears to be continuing confusion surrounding the different versions of the Black Talon bullet, its legality for possession by private citizens, as well as its alleged "cop-killer bullet" armor-piercing capability. Here's the lowdown:

Black Talon SXT: The original Black Talon handgun bullet. It was introduced in 1991. The cartridge consists of a black colored
bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The black paint-like coating on the bullet is a Winchester proprietary lubricant called
Lubalox. The bullet has six serrations on the rim of the hollowpoint cavity (meplat), and six talons. The talons deploy when the bullet expands. They are described by Winchester as: "six uniform, radial jacket petals with perpendicular tips." Winchester voluntarily discontinued sales of Black Talon SXT to the general public in late 1993/early 1994 due to intense negative media and political pressure. Some political activists derisively referred to it as "Black Felon" ammo. Black Talon is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.

Ranger SXT: Ranger SXT is a less expensive version of the original Black Talon cartridge intended for the law enforcement
market. It consists of a black Lubalox coated bullet seated in a brass case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six
talons. Ranger SXT is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

Supreme SXT: Redesigned "civilian" version of the original Black Talon bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet
seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has eight serrations on its meplat, and no talons. Supreme SXT is packaged in boxes
of 20 cartridges.

According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance
gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and
verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI.

We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge.

Ranger Talon: The second generation version of the original Black Talon SXT bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed
bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger Talon is packaged in
boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

There is no Federal law that prohibits a private citizen from purchasing or possessing any of the Black Talon bullet variants.
Additionally, there is no Federal law, which forbids private possession and use of "law enforcement" handgun ammunition,
except specifically defined armor-piercing handgun ammunition. Black Talon, Ranger SXT and Ranger Talon do not meet the
criteria for armor-piercing handgun ammunition as defined by Federal law. However, there may be State or local laws that ban
private possession of Black Talon and its variants.

The negative media frenzy of late 1993 produced untrue assertions that Black Talon was an armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullet. We've fired both 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talon bullets into threat level IIA soft body armor and the armor easily stopped the
bullets. The "armor-piercing" myth may have originated from the markings used on certain military small-arms ammunition. U.S.
military cartridges with a black painted tip indicates the bullet is armor-piercing. (Federal Nyclad ammunition is often mistaken as armor-piercing ammunition too, due to the blue-black nylon coating on the lead bullet.)

The black Lubalox coating on the Black Talon bullet is meant to reduce in-bore friction and chamber pressure. Once the bullet
leaves the muzzle, the mission of the coating is completed. Lubalox does not give the bullet any special property that allows it to blast through police soft body armor.

Recently, the newer Winchester 9mm 127 grain +P+ Ranger SXT bullet (product number RA9SXTP) has been found to
penetrate some lower threat level soft body armor. Second Chance Body Armor Company recalled one of its vests in response
to officer safety concerns posed by this particular bullet.

http://www.911jobforums.com/showthread.php?t=11827

[technique]

good stuff...I gots me some in 9mm and .45acp.

Heres what I was told...

It was pulled due to complaints from trauma surgeons dealing with victims of BT, The shrapnel slices and dices their gloves during surgery and creats more of an issue for them then any other round... How true that is I don't know.

[Beelzy]

Yup, Doctors whining about getting cut and catching AIDS from people
being shot by the Super Bullet.

Lame but true.

[sorensen440]

Collectors item for sure

Ive seen them sell for around 50 bucks in various calibers

[ErikTheRed]

I picked up a box in .40S&W at the Cal Expo show back in November (I think it was). The guy had several boxes with orange price stickers on them marked at $12 a box. Before I got too excited, he let me know that those prices were on the boxes since the early 90's. He wanted $30 a box, so I grabbed one just so I could tell people, "ssshhhhhh...... check it out man, I've got some Black Talons!"

[rue]

Ranger SXT= same exact thing

[titus7]

So these are legal to purchase and own here in Cali?? I keep looking at them on GB but just havent bought them because I wasnt sure of legalities??

[AndrewMendez]

Wow I remember that. News was calling them "Black Felon"...

I still have some left as well.

Found an interesting article copied from another forum from 2002:

Winchester Black Talon Revisited

There appears to be continuing confusion surrounding the different versions of the Black Talon bullet, its legality for possession by private citizens, as well as its alleged "cop-killer bullet" armor-piercing capability. Here's the lowdown:

Black Talon SXT: The original Black Talon handgun bullet. It was introduced in 1991. The cartridge consists of a black colored
bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The black paint-like coating on the bullet is a Winchester proprietary lubricant called
Lubalox. The bullet has six serrations on the rim of the hollowpoint cavity (meplat), and six talons. The talons deploy when the bullet expands. They are described by Winchester as: "six uniform, radial jacket petals with perpendicular tips." Winchester voluntarily discontinued sales of Black Talon SXT to the general public in late 1993/early 1994 due to intense negative media and political pressure. Some political activists derisively referred to it as "Black Felon" ammo. Black Talon is packaged in boxes of 20 cartridges.

Ranger SXT: Ranger SXT is a less expensive version of the original Black Talon cartridge intended for the law enforcement
market. It consists of a black Lubalox coated bullet seated in a brass case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six
talons. Ranger SXT is packaged in boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

Supreme SXT: Redesigned "civilian" version of the original Black Talon bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed bullet
seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has eight serrations on its meplat, and no talons. Supreme SXT is packaged in boxes
of 20 cartridges.

According to Olin-Winchester public relations, the Supreme SXT bullet design has not been factory tested in standard ordnance
gelatin because it was not designed to meet police ammunition performance specifications. As a result, there's no valid and
verifiable performance data available from Winchester or the FBI.

We find Winchester's attitude troubling because they're marketing a personal defense bullet (a life safety device) in which they confessed to us that they've no idea how well (or poorly) it performs. Therefore, we advise you not to buy and use Supreme SXT until Winchester gets its act together and coughs up performance data for this cartridge.

Ranger Talon: The second generation version of the original Black Talon SXT bullet. The cartridge consists of a copper-jacketed
bullet seated in a nickel-plated case. The bullet has six serrations on its meplat, and six talons. Ranger Talon is packaged in
boxes of 50 cartridges marked "Law Enforcement Ammunition."

There is no Federal law that prohibits a private citizen from purchasing or possessing any of the Black Talon bullet variants.
Additionally, there is no Federal law, which forbids private possession and use of "law enforcement" handgun ammunition,
except specifically defined armor-piercing handgun ammunition. Black Talon, Ranger SXT and Ranger Talon do not meet the
criteria for armor-piercing handgun ammunition as defined by Federal law. However, there may be State or local laws that ban
private possession of Black Talon and its variants.

The negative media frenzy of late 1993 produced untrue assertions that Black Talon was an armor-piercing "cop-killer" bullet. We've fired both 9mm and .40 S&W Black Talon bullets into threat level IIA soft body armor and the armor easily stopped the
bullets. The "armor-piercing" myth may have originated from the markings used on certain military small-arms ammunition. U.S.
military cartridges with a black painted tip indicates the bullet is armor-piercing. (Federal Nyclad ammunition is often mistaken as armor-piercing ammunition too, due to the blue-black nylon coating on the lead bullet.)

The black Lubalox coating on the Black Talon bullet is meant to reduce in-bore friction and chamber pressure. Once the bullet
leaves the muzzle, the mission of the coating is completed. Lubalox does not give the bullet any special property that allows it to blast through police soft body armor.

Recently, the newer Winchester 9mm 127 grain +P+ Ranger SXT bullet (product number RA9SXTP) has been found to
penetrate some lower threat level soft body armor. Second Chance Body Armor Company recalled one of its vests in response
to officer safety concerns posed by this particular bullet.
http://www.911jobforums.com/showthread.php?t=11827

Thanks for the Info!! Now I know!

[heycorey]

So these are legal to purchase and own here in Cali?? I keep looking at them on GB but just havent bought them because I wasnt sure of legalities??

Yes ... you're just not allowed to shoot anyone with them.