Self defense bullets

[kurac]

For 9mm, Gold Dots are probably the best SD projectile you will be able to find as a component. Back in the day I used to buy Silvertips as a component. Golden Sabers also work but I don't care for the step in the jacket. XTP's are great for range practice, but I haven't had much luck getting them to expand.

[JagerDog]

For 9mm, Gold Dots are probably the best SD projectile you will be able to find as a component. Back in the day I used to buy Silvertips as a component. Golden Sabers also work but I don't care for the step in the jacket. XTP's are great for range practice, but I haven't had much luck getting them to expand.

Most have a very different experience.

[Lead Waster]

So bulk jacketed hollow points would be better than FMJ, but not as good as the specially designed SD projectiles.

I admit I have no way of testing "effectiveness" (ie; not ballistic gelatin, etc), the only thing I could hope to match with what I have would be choosing an "effective" bullet design, and velocity (by tweaking powder or powder charge).

Some good points here, even with the tangential discussion on legalities.

[JagerDog]

So bulk jacketed hollow points would be better than FMJ, but not as good as the specially designed SD projectiles.

I admit I have no way of testing "effectiveness" (ie; not ballistic gelatin, etc), the only thing I could hope to match with what I have would be choosing an "effective" bullet design, and velocity (by tweaking powder or powder charge).

Some good points here, even with the tangential discussion on legalities.

Water jugs (people are mostly water), wet newsprint/phone books (if they still exist). While not "calibrated" like ballistic gelatin, work well for qualitative analysis. You can add obstacles (dry wall, sheetmetal, textiles, etc.) in front of the medium to evaluate that aspect.

Check out boxoftruth website for ideas.

[Lead Waster]

Water jugs (people are mostly water), wet newsprint/phone books (if they still exist). While not "calibrated" like ballistic gelatin, work well for qualitative analysis. You can add obstacles (dry wall, sheetmetal, textiles, etc.) in front of the medium to evaluate that aspect.

Check out boxoftruth website for ideas.

Actually, I'm mostly limited to indoor ranges that allow a piece of cardboard, or their own paper targets on hangers.

I think for me the drywall obstacle would be interesting.

[TexasJackKin]

I'm not sure there is a "best" self defense bullet. Is your assailant a 90 lb meth addict, or a 350 lb offensive lineman wannabe? Is it winter and everyone is all bundled up, or summer and t shirt weather? Are you emotionally able to shoot someone in the face/head?

I think as a group we spend to much time over analyzing the "best" bullet. Time that would be better spent perfecting our shooting craft. OP, you asked about 9MM ammo, I like 124 grain, with any quality hollow point. For me, I prefer .45 ACP, bigger might not always be better, but it's never worse. Just my opinion....

[JagerDog]

Actually, I'm mostly limited to indoor ranges that allow a piece of cardboard, or their own paper targets on hangers.

I think for me the drywall obstacle would be interesting.

Not a rare situation. A lot of testing by mfg's, agencies and laymen is available. There is some variance between calibers, so best is to try to find testing which best approximates your caliber.

In reality, they're pretty much all better than what was available just a few decades ago (such as the cast/gas checked "FBI" load in revolvers). Modern bullets has made the 9mm much more suitable than it was prior.

As you might imagine, drywall has a tendency to plug the hollowpoint, rendering it a solid. Minimizing that effect is both art and science and is part of "tactical" bullet development and acceptance criteria.

[trackcage]

Me personally, I would not have an issue using handloads for self defense. Couple things to think about:

Powders used by ammo manufactures is not always available to us. Many HD/SD powders are low flash for dark situations/middle of the night. Make sure you don't pick some extra flashy powder like Power Pistol to cook up your loads with. In fact, where to start on powder of choice for SD is another thread in itself.

There is more to ammo than velocity and projectile choice. An example in my own world that has lead me to consideration of handloading my own SD ammo... I prefer 9mm, but have a G22 in .40 I've considered using around the house for SD. Problem is, most .40 is hotter than I think it ought to be (when compared with 9mm). So if I were to handload it for SD, I'd load it lighter than factory, but still plenty of oomph. Something like 150 power factor (that's 180 gr @ 850 ft/s for my non-competitive friends). I am absolutely sure you'd be just as dead, and I'd have faster follow up shots than I would otherwise with overpower ammo.

Final thought is if you're going to handload for SD, be absolutely sure your making good ammo. This isn't the kind of thing someone newer to reloading should step into.

[Maht_g]

How's $12/50 (for XTP or GDHP)?

Everyone has their own idea of what price differential makes reloading "worth it". I'd reload for zero savings as I enjoy the process. My equipment is already amortized.

[Win231]

Ok I found this argument on that topic;

https://gundigest.com/handguns/concealed-carry/handloads-not-a-good-idea-for-concealed-carry

Which has some compelling points.

However I think if you can get round close to your chosen rounds, then practicing with them would be a good thing.

And of course having them at hand at home is better than factory fmj probably.

Exactly as explained in the article. Of course, you'll hear people say it's a bunch of BS. Such individuals don't think ahead - or don't think at all. And some have a "No one tells me what to do" attitude.

[hambam105]

I'm not going to googlefu for you.

He's been discussed many times, many places and there's a wealth of information at your fingertips.

I don't have to resort to using Google to know that MA'a client list is confidential.

Your earlier post alluded that you knew or had inside information on MA's knowledge base or industry reputation. So I was politely asking you to quote your source. Not Google, not many time here and many times there. Not me. You.

Before I knew better, I too thought MA's opinions of firearms related topics were amiss. That was before someone a lot smarter than I challenged me on just what exactly what this MA character was all about. Lucky for me, it only took about 10 or 15 minutes on the opening lecture of a 5 day course too realize that my $500 tuition was an excellent investment in myself.

As for the original post; The proper answer for using hand loads for SD purposes has been settled since the 1970s. Show me any public agency's shooting policy that allows handloads and I'll pay you to seek legal counsel to get my above statement proved correct.

[JagerDog]

As for the original post; The proper answer for using hand loads for SD purposes has been settled since the 1970s. Show me any public agency's shooting policy that allows handloads and I'll pay you to seek legal counsel to get my above statement proved correct.

You're missing cause vs. effect. They have no control over your reloading practices. Get a kaboom, go on disability, they wanna sue Winchester if it's ammo related. Policy of using company tools for company jobs is commonplace. A little thing called Workman's Comp. What a dumb statement/measure. Show me a gun manufacturer who warrants the use of reloads.

Here's Ruger's statement just for example:

And S&W:

What kind of ammunition should I use in my S&W handgun?
Use only commercially manufactured ammunition with internal ballistic pressures which are in strict accordance with the specifications of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute (SAAMI).

Be certain all ammunition you use complies with the SAAMI specifications. If you are uncertain, contact your ammunition supplier for verification.

If you would like any further information on specific ammunition, you may contact one of the major ammunition manufacturers from the link listed below:

Ayoob has a lot of good stuff. Specifically use of deadly force, tactics, ballistics and forensics. I wasn't dissing the man...just his stance on this issue (commercial-like reloads for SD). He can't state a single case where a good shoot became a bad shoot hinging on ammo used...and neither can you...yet it's somehow "gospel" since he said it. It's FUD, plain and simple.

[hambam105]

Can't show one single example of use of force policy that allows it's members to roll their own duty ammo. Tisk tisk. FUD on me, again.

Firearm manufactures don't terminate their customers employment for blasting thru a half magazine loaded with Billy-Bob's Anti Burglar 1-Stop-Shot Specials.

MA is right about, lets see. ..A, B, C,D, E, F, G...He has been being paid for is knowledge & use of firearms....since....wow! since before I was born....and yes, I know more than he does on the use of reloads in HD circumstances because....because...well, just because.

'You can't prove', 'you can't prove'. Heck. I can't prove the Earth is round. Show me proof, not pictures, that the Earth is round. Can you? FUD on me again. Dang It!

[hambam105]

Cause and Effect.

How many judicious use of force cases have been settled where the defendant was not criminally charged and still ends up being successfully sued in a civil court? Gosh! It never has happened. And using your own private stash of reloads is ay-okay.

Anyone who slings this advice should have to end up paying at least half of the settlement to the person who took his advise in the first place.

[JagerDog]

Such a cogent argument...not.

In lieu of "proof", some actual evidence would be nice...yet you can't produce an iota and MA has failed to as well. Just someone's statement. If this was so pervasive, you'd think at least 1 or 2 cases would be available. A lawyer could sue you because you were wearing black panties and black clothing makes one aggressive. Seems a lot like Trump's Russian colluuuuusion.

Critical thinking has passed you by. Hope you didn't pay for a class in that. Have a good day.