Load Development:. Where/When does it end?

[Lamski]

We all strive for that perfect load for our particular rifle but with there being so many variables and things to try/tweak... at what point do you personally call your load good and stop messing with it?

For example:. Once you get close to your goal, how many seating depths do you try to see if you can squeeze out even better groups? Maybe, running the brass through the neck sizer 4 times while turning 90 degrees each time will get the groups even tighter. Maybe rubbing your lucky rabbits foot on the brass will help even more... You get the idea...

I know everyone has different goals and build loads for different purposes and such but I'm just curious... Where do YOU personally stop and call it good?

[kcheung2]

Your first sentence has a false premise. I don't strive for a perfect load, I get a pretty good load that still works reliably in all my guns and then go into mass production.

[silvertriple]

That's just it. It never ends....

[Spyder]

I find zero enjoyment in load development. Once I find a good load, I run with it. May adjust a few rounds now and then just to see, but a dozen trips to shoot and test and change and blow money to gain a quarter inch drives me crazy.

[JackEllis]

I look for 1" five shot groups at 100 yards but if I get to 1-1/4", that's probably good enough for the distances I shoot when hunting. I reload for three calibers.

My background is in engineering so I find the process interesting, but the nearest range is a half hour away in each direction and if I spent all my range time on load development, I'd never get in any real practice.

Even if I developed the perfect load, producing cartridges in any useful quantity (tens to hundreds) in any reasonable amount of time using reasonably priced components introduces other variables.

My wife's mantra is, "if it's worth doing, it's worth doing well", but that has to be tempered with a bit of practicality. She's a perfectionist. Me, not quite so much.

[bazineta]

I stop once I have a load that groups reasonably well and runs reliably. My rationale is that the ammo is probably a lot better than I am.

For folks that shoot at the High Master level, tiny differences can be important, so they'll concentrate on this type of thing. I'm not nearly at that level of proficiency and just want an economical way to move in that direction.

The last thing I want to do is suck all the joy out of it, and I do find reloading to be quite relaxing.

[TexasJackKin]

As others have said, the right answer is, It Depends.

It depends on what type of shooting you do, Bench Rest, or Long Range, require one thing, 3 gun, USPSA, require something much different. Load development, is complicated by things like, did you stop for coffee on your way to the range, was they guy next to you shooting a .50 BMG, was the wind blowing, and then things like what components were available, lot numbers, etc.

Your done, when you say your done.

[kcstott]

It REALLY depends

My F class loads need to be able to print a 1" Inch not moa, group or smaller at 300 yards that makes those loads spot on for 1000 yard competition. Five round groups too. none of this three round BS and in reality I like to see ten round groups.

My AR308 needs to shoot the same as my F class rifle and it does just not out to 1000 yards due to optics limitations. but it will consistently group 3-4" at 800 meters on the rare day there is no wind.

My .220 swift needs to be less then .3" inch at 100 and carry that accuracy out to 400 yards. it's an old un blue printed action and a cheep barrel. so i'd say it does very damn good.

My 7x57, and Garand, need to shoot 1" at 100 yards. and i won't be upset if they open up to 1.5"

My .22 hornet is shot off hand so if I can hit what I'm aiming at the load it good.

My AR15 I don't bother, if I can hit a 20X40 steel silhouette at 300 meters I'm good.


Here's how I work up a load for long range. and you better be able to measure powder to less then .1 grain accuracy,

in .2-.3 gr step load ten rounds .020" off the lands.

Shoot these with a good amount of time between to let the barrel cool I'm only measuring velocity.

Look at your data you will see a velocity plateau. select a load centered on the plateau, load up five rounds and step the seating depth .005" closer to the lands with every group of five. Check of accuracy at this point. you will see one group shine above all others. that is the group to use. I prefer testing at 300 yards to look for bullet stability. it can become an issue with VLD bullets, You can have a load that has a huge group at 100 yards but doesn't get any larger at 300 yards.

Then if you want you can load ten more rounds, Five round each at .002" closer and farther from the lands to fine tune.

Thats it. That technique has yet to produce a one hole group at 100 yards and carry that accuracy to 1000 yards.

[stilly]

Your first sentence has a false premise. I don't strive for a perfect load, I get a pretty good load that still works reliably in all my guns and then go into mass production.

WINNER WINNER CHICKEN DINNER!
And a Stilly thingamajigger...


I make loads that work in most all guns I typically shoot. Then once they work fine, mass production and use up all of that powder.

[rm1911]

What I've discovered over 25 years of reloading is this. You will quickly find the good from the bad loads, you will not be able to find the better and the best.

I'm sure with enough time and more importantly several thousand in shooting equipment (like a rest that locks in the rifle), you can find marginal differences. But by and large you'll get to the spot quickly where you have good load results and well within what you need the rifle to do. Beyond that, what are the gains really worth?

Here's a simple example. This is a group from my son's marlin X7L 30-06.





Just a simple load. 47 grains IMR4895 and a 150gr soft point. Shot off a Caldwell soft bag front and rear rest. Threw the charge with an older hornady hopper, and loaded on old rcbs dies. I didn't take the time to do all the accuracy stuff. Just loaded range fodder.

Well, that's back to back inch groups. So, if I did accuracy stuff I could cut it to around 3/4". Then what? What's the ideal powder/bullet whatever combo gonna do? 1/2"? And for what? To put a round into a deer's chest at 2-300 yards.

And by the way, that was my garand load I was shooting, which works awesome in the garands. Turns out it is a great bolt load. Also what I hunt with in my sporterized 03A3. Seems it's not to hard to find a load that works really well.

[LynnJr]

Once you know how to load for extreme accuracy you can use that methodology for all your firearms and it takes the same amount of time as it does to do it all wrong and get big groups.
Powder charge is very important.
Seating depth is second.
Primer is a tuning device and is third.
I strive for loads that shoot to the bullets capability.
That means horrible groups with full metal jacket military bullets. It means 5 shot groups around 1/4 inch with 6mm Sierra MatchKings.
It means sub 1/4 inch groups with BIB custom bullets.
If my hunting rifles won't shoot 1/2 inch or smaller at 100 yards they get a new barrel or they get sold.
The photo shows 5 shot groups 5 times or a 25 shot aggregate. The guy in 20th place put 25 shots in under a quarter inch and lost bad.

[Dark Hunt]

When the load does what you are trying to achieve.

[bsumoba]

I've learned that one can go crazy load developing and I have had the unfortunate experience of shooting a good barrel out thinking I can improve it, whereas I should have just kept shooting it in matches.

There are a couple things that one has to consider and take into account when going down the path of precision shooting.

1) Guns will shoot differently everyday and if you can accept this, then load developing in my opinion, gets easier. Most of us want a load that will agg well over multiple days. This is why we load to the middle of accuracy nodes so that if you are shooting at sea level or at higher elevations or if it is 40 degrees outside or 100 degrees, the gun will shoot decent in all those conditions. Just because a load shot well one day, then did not shoot as well the next day, does not mean you have to go back to the drawing board.

2) There are too many variables to control. Control the ones you believe to have the greatest impact on your groups. I have tested all the accuracy improving ideas posted on the internet and spoken at the range and many of us have just simply taken someone's word for the Bible and not really tested it. I tested these to determine which I believed are important and have shown me that it makes a noticeable impact.

All that said, I have been able to get new barrels to shoot within 50 rounds, assuming I am using good reloading components and I have a good barrel. Bear in mind, these are custom rifles, not factory rifles.

In my F-Open guns, I call a load good when it starts shooting in the 1's and 2's for groups at 100 yards. I will mess with seating depth in 0.010" increments to see if it improves, but none of this load in 0.003" increment stuff. If it consistently shoots 5-shot groups at 100 yards in the 2's and low 3's with relatively low ES, then what more can you ask? Even the best shooting guns in the world in benchrest are tuned for that specific day as they can load at the range. Many of us do not have that luxury, so we are forced to find a load that will shoot in multiple condidtions.

If a barrel does not shoot in the 2's, it may just go back to the manufacture or I will simply use it for local matches and not big matches. I had a dasher barrel that wouldn't shoot consistent 1's and low 2's. I spun on a new barrel and the new barrel right off the bat, shot essentially 1 hole 5-shot groups at 100 yards. The old barrel became a fireform barrel and still shoots better than most guns (in the low 3's).

My loads developed at 100 yards still hold well out to 1,000 yards. I have done ladder testing at 1K, but the conclusion I have come up with is that validating at 1,000 yards is a good idea just to confirm, but the load I ended up with was essentially the same load I came up with at 100 yards. I do use the same barrel manufactures, same barrel length, contour, caliber, bullet, etc, so my load from barrel to barrel has not deviated much (maybe 0.1-0.2 grains either way from the previous load).

[mif_slim]

Oh it ends. I gotten lazy. Get 5 in a group that is sub-moa. I'm done. Haha.

[stilly]

But sometimes you WANT big groups. When you are in a room that turns sour and you gotta busta cap in every mother****er that moves, You need an AK-47 with a HUGE *** group so it can spread out enough to get them all...