Need som Expert Feedback

[JackEllis]

I was finally able to test some handloads for .243 and .223 today during a break in the weather. The most accurate load for .223 using 55 grain V-Max bullets turns out to be a mild one (24.5 grains of Win748) giving me a 1/2" group at 100 yards. Same for the .243, where 37 grains of IMR 4064 underneath 55 grain Nosler lead-free ballistic tips produced groups at just under 3/4".

Some folks have talked about what their rifle does and doesn't "like". As far as I'm concerned, my rifles (both Tikka T3s) seem to "like" the bullets I've chosen and in my opinion, both the loads and in my opinion and their accuracy are good enough for an upcoming pest control trip, though I will do some more tweaking and testing if I have time and the weather cooperates.

Since I'm new to reloading, I'm wondering what people mean when they imply or say their rifle doesn't "like" a certain bullet, or conversely what they mean when they say their rifle does "like" a bullet.

Since it was chilly with a bit of a breeze, the .223 barrel never got warm enough to be able to notice. When the .243 got to bath temperature, I'd stop until it cooled a bit. Is that enough to affect accuracy? For the .243 test I shot roughly 40 rounds, Does that cause enough fouling to materially affect the results.

Finally, if I'm testing leaded and lead-free rounds on the same day, do I want to shoot the lead-free rounds first and then shoot the leaded rounds, assuming I'm stupid enough to leave cleaning supplies at home?

Appreciate any and all responses.

[Dago Red]

For a hunting rifle .5" at 100 is great. What a person typically means is if they try half a dozen bullets with a comparable load there will usually be one that performs best and one that is worst and a few about the same. Some guns are more finicky than others. I.e. My stepfather and his brother both had 308 Norma mags, one preferred 165's one shot 180's better. Same twist rate. I have a buddy that can shoot 220 40,s in his pistol, another friend tries the same bullets in his gun and they tumble.

I think shoot the rifle as you would under the conditions you'll face. If you've got a five round magazine fire five shot groups no cleaning between shots. It's been years since I did load development (I hate loading actually, once Hornady released their superformance ammo I never looked back. I only load for pistols now) I'd do my whole range session, usually @40 rounds, without cleaning.

Then there's the ladder method, the whole heavy for caliber vs light and fast debate etc. some guys just love loading and spend more time at the press and bench than in the field. To each their own. I don't hunt any more but once loaded for 06, 06 improved, 35 Whelen improved, 264 win mag, 308 Norma, 45/70 and 375 h&h

Sounds like you hit on a couple good loads, crank em out and have some fun

Red

[SixPointEight]

You found bullets your rifle "likes"

Sometimes you'll find a bullet your rifle doesn't "like". What does that mean? No matter what you do or try, you can't get it to shoot acceptable groups. Acceptable is whatever you define it to be. Are you okay with 3" groups? Then anything that consistently shoots over that is something your rifle "doesn't like".

[Divernhunter]

Shoot the non-lead first always.
40 rounds is no reason to clean and will not effect accuracy. Might actually improve as you got more rounds fired.
Try 27-28gr of 748 with the 55 gr bullet.
As far as liking bullets.--I have had bullets that shot like a shotgun no matter what I did. Then others that will put 5 shots into one hole. Only difference is the bullets. Usually(not always) one is heavier then the other or non-lead vrs lead core

[JackEllis]

Perfect. Thanks for all the comments. I got the reality check I was hoping for.

I'm an engineer by training (just don't ask me to design or build machinery) so there's something appealing and very satisfying about doing a bunch of experiments (load testing) and seeing the results. On the other hand I've got a bunch of rounds that need to be loaded in a pretty short time.

I do wish I'd read a little more carefully before settling on VMAX varmint rounds but then again I guess farmers aren't too concerned about having lead dust contaminate their fields just yet. NTX would have been a better, cleaner load for the .223.

[Divernhunter]

You might try some 55gr SX Hornady bullets in that 223. That is what I have shot for many years in mine for ground squirrels. Shot so many I shot out the barrel. My Fav load with them is 27-28grs Win 748 and a mag primer. I use 27 in mil surplus brass and 28 in commercial brass. A fast super accurate load that results in pieces of squirrel everywhere. What I really like is no chance of bullets bouncing off things. When they hit anything they explode.

[tonyjr]

Some powders like varget are dirty . They kind of coat the barrel / lube it .
But only after a few rounds . To me , I only use for mussel memory . It is
also a log type - which means it does not meter as well as a ball type
[ at least for me . ]
Bullet wise - I don't use lead , plated or coated - That is me .
Take a FMJ , lead , coated and plated bullet , rub across a piece of steel ,
That is almost the same as going out barrel -
Different bullets compress differently when fired . A whole bunch of stuff figure into how the gun likes or dislikes it .
A few things OAL , crimp , is bullet touching the land or grove ?
I no longer hunt - so things like temp , humidity , elevation - just don't matter any more .
For me a good group can be covered by the black bullseye . What works for you might not work for someone else . They will probably not hold your rifle the same

[silvertriple]

I don't clean my barrels very often and have not noticed a lick of accuracy difference when switching back and forth between lead core and non-lead projectiles throughout the same shooting session. This is between 3 different rifles.

Sometimes during hunting season I'll have fun shooting lead bullets and when it's time to head home I'll re-zero with the non-lead, shoot a group to check accuracy, and call it good. This is done at 200 yards with accuracy of moa or less. Haven't had a problem yet.

Again, everyone rifle is different. Experiment with yours and you'll find the do's and don'ts.

[NapalmCheese]

I don't clean my barrels very often and have not noticed a lick of accuracy difference when switching back and forth between lead core and non-lead projectiles throughout the same shooting session. This is between 3 different rifles.

...

Again, everyone rifle is different. Experiment with yours and you'll find the do's and don'ts.

That was not true for my hunting rifle. I tried to develop a copper load with 110 grain TTSXs only to find them shooting not so great. They were grouping into 3ish inches at 200 yards shortly after I had produced a number of 2ish inch groups with Sierra Gamekings. Divernhunter turned me on to the idea of cleaning my bore with a foaming copper solvent before trying again. After cleaning, that same copper load that produced 3 inch groups at 200 yards is now producing a little better than 2 inch groups at 200 yards.

[baih777]

no expert but I can only chat about 223.
their are different twist rates that will affect your load.
from 1/7 to 1/14. no 1/10 or at least I have not seen one.

I load 52, 55, 62, and 68. for my AR with 24inch barrel and my bolt gun 24inch barrel
everything else in 223, I shoot factory ammo. too much work.

[Divernhunter]

^^^ I have a 1/10 on my Rem 700. It is a SS Douglas barrel. Shoots great.

[JackEllis]

My Tikka in .223 has a 1:8 barrel so it should shoot just about anything I put through it. Right now that's 55 grain VM-MAX but I've got 35 grain NTX bullets and some IMR4918 on order to see if I can avoid spraying lead fragments all over a field when I shoot squirrels.

I think I'm pretty close on a varmint load for the .243 (Nosler 55s in this case) but I also have a pile 100 grain soft point core-lokts I can still use on coyotes once I develop a load for them.

After looking at my test results again yesterday, I settled on a 26 grain load (IMR 4064) under the V-MAX, which gives me the best combination of speed and accuracy. I realize I could drive them faster but that only helps me if I'm shooting beyond about 250 yards and I'm not quite ready to reach that far just yet. The lighter NTX would be better for those shots anyway.

[tonyjr]

Other than " stuff " building up in barrel , the main reason I clean my pistols and rifles is the corrosive things in powder . Maybe newer powders don't cause corrosion but I really don't care .
At least once a year every gun is cleaned - even if they have not been shot .
I happen to be one of the fools that own bore lights , probably 10 plus cleaning kits .
I don't know if a clean well oiled gun collects more dust than a dry / dirty gun .
While probably only 10% of us that reload clean primer pockets / flash holes .
Probably less than 1% of pistol reloaders check their case lengths - I do
But I am the same with my tools - hell I even oil / wipe down my hammers .

[hermosabeach]

So each bullet has a unique shape/ weight/ Drag coefficient etc

When you load a projectile, you could seat the projectile as deep as allowed or as long as allowed per COL specs.


The amount of free bore- jump- distance travelled by the bullet before it engages the lands / grooves can make a huge difference in accuracy
/ consistency

A 16" barrel and a 24" barrel of the same twist will have different harmonics. The 24" will stabilize bullets more than the 16" as the additional twists before the bullet leaves the barrel.



If you switch to non varmint weight bullets in the .243 85-105 grain bullets, you might find better or worse group size.

[divingin]

So each bullet has a unique shape/ weight/ Drag coefficient etc

Definitely agree with this. Same weight bullets will (probably should make that "may") shoot differently in a given rifle.

When you load a projectile, you could seat the projectile as deep as allowed or as long as allowed per COL specs.

Depends on the rifle and the load. Too deep, you may generate pressure problems due to constrained case capacity. Long length isn't too much of a problem if you don't have to fit the cartridge in a magazine (though be careful about jamming the bullet against the lands if you don't know what you're doing.) You do need about a diameter or so of bearing surface to generate neck tension, but that's an estimate and can be fudged a bit.

The amount of free bore- jump- distance travelled by the bullet before it engages the lands / grooves can make a huge difference in accuracy/consistency

That is specific to the rifle, and the bullet. Meaning some rifles like a certain jump more than others, and some bullets are more or less tolerant of jump than others.

A 16" barrel and a 24" barrel of the same twist will have different harmonics. The 24" will stabilize bullets more than the 16" as the additional twists before the bullet leaves the barrel.

I don't think the length has an effect on stabilization per se. Assuming the bullet doesn't "slip" in the rifling, a rate is rate per foot of length, so at the muzzle bullets traveling at the same velocity will have the same rotation, and thus the same stabilization. A longer barrel will give you bit more velocity which causes a higher rotational speed (hence better stabilization), but the same can be done by pushing the bullet faster in the shorter barrel (assuming your pressure gives you room to do so.)



Not trying to be argumentative, just throwing out my thoughts.


jky