Primer Question

[Kokanee]

New to reloading and gathering all the needed materials.
Reading, reading, and reading......
I am starting with 12ga, then adding in rifle and pistol some day.
I'll be buying rifle and pistol primers and powders to stockpile for now.

What drawback is there if any, to using 209A primers vs 209?
Seems that you reduce powder, which saves money......

Would it be true to say in 9mm using a mag primer vs a std isn't worth it since you are already using such a small powder charge?

[DarkKing]

Only use mag primers for ma. Loads.

Use the primer for the intended purpose. Rifle and mag primers have more of a charge and can be dangerous if you mix them.

Look at the primer box and it will say pistol shot gun or rifle or magnum loads

[NukleusX]

I have yet to reload my first cartridge and I have already learned 'by the book' is the best route to go, pretty much always. And I learned that from not just one book I have opened on the subject but pretty much all of them will tell you that. Good luck!

[stevec223]

Find a load for the hulls you have... Then look up the primer ,, hull,, wad and shot charge... Shotgun shell reloading are component specific... Do not vary from the published loads.... Lyman,,, Rcbs manuals are great sources... The combination of components are very specific for 12ga (ect) loads..... Pressures can vary greatly with different components... Rifle and pistol are a whole different animal.... Be safe... Cheers...

[Kokanee]

Thanks all, for the input.

[Divernhunter]

DarkKing--- You clearly do not know what you are speaking about on pistol or rifle primers.
I use and have used for many years mag primers in all my pistol/rifle loads and never had a problem. I have sometimes compared reg and mag primer loads and usually the mag primer loads are more accurate. There was a study using a 357mag and several powders/bullets and all gave better accuracy with mag primers.
Been loading since the early 1960's and now load for approx. 35 different cartridges. My test loads are shot over a Chrono and for accuracy. I load hot for my hunting loads.
Another rule of thumb is to use mag primers with ball type powders.

Your statement is wrong. I am not trying to be hard on you. Just helping others avoid mis-information.

Shotgun reloading I have not done in years so I have not kept up on it and will not comment.

[DarkKing]

DarkKing--- You clearly do not know what you are speaking about on pistol or rifle primers.
I use and have used for many years mag primers in all my pistol/rifle loads and never had a problem. I have sometimes compared reg and mag primer loads and usually the mag primer loads are more accurate. There was a study using a 357mag and several powders/bullets and all gave better accuracy with mag primers.
Been loading since the early 1960's and now load for approx. 35 different cartridges. My test loads are shot over a Chrono and for accuracy. I load hot for my hunting loads.
Another rule of thumb is to use mag primers with ball type powders.

Your statement is wrong. I am not trying to be hard on you. Just helping others avoid mis-information.

Shotgun reloading I have not done in years so I have not kept up on it and will not comment.

So you use the same amount of powder in regular primer loads as magnum primer loads -.^

From speer #10
Magnum Primers

Magnum primers contain a greater amount and/or slightly different explosive mix than is used in standard primers. On ignition, magnum primers give longer burning, hotter flames. Their use is recommended for (1) any ammunition that will be used at or below zero degrees F., (2) with most Ball powders and (3) with slow burning rifle powders like MRP and IMR 4831 in very large cases. Magnum pistol primers often will give more uniform velocities in magnum handgun cartridges loaded with large charges or slow powders like 296, 2400 and H-110. Magnum primers may be used with faster burning or easy-to-ignite powders, but normally there will be no advantage in doing so. As when changing other components, it is advisable to reduce powder charge weights on initial loading with magnum primers.

While I completely understand that you can use magnum primers in any load what so ever, it would be stupid to use load data for regular primers and then insert a magnum primer.

There are some use cases with slower burning powder that it does make sense but again the generic advise is to drop .5 to 1 gran if using magnum powder.

CCI Primers in ft lbs

small pistol 5.5
small rifle 6.0
small rifle magnum 7.2
small pistol magnum 8.8


My point is you don't mix load data from mag load data with regular load data. Pressures can be different.

also from the CCI website

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=29

"Usage Note: Use Magnum primers only where
called for in published reloading data"

Same message in Speer Reloading manual # 12 on page 38.

Same message in Lyman 48th edition on page 23, 32
also "
Do not use magnum primers unless the data
specifically calls for these as doing so can alter ballistic
uniformity and the safety of the data. "

and on page 95

"Particularly if you go from a standard to a
magnum primer. However, reduce your powder charge
5% if you do because the magnum primers will cause a
jump in pressure."

on page 99

"Anytime you change something in your load, the
pressure can change. Something as small as a primer
change can send the pressure over the safe limit. This
is particularly true if you switch from a standard
primer to a magnum primer."


Can you point me to a source that says they can be interchanged without modifying load data, specifically in applications that do not call for a Magnum primer and powders that do not call for magnum primers? Any at all?



the switch to magnum primers also has other factors like cold temperatures, ball, vs flake, fast, vs slow primers. Load data is NOT interchangeable between these. If you can find me a published source indicating you can switch these without modifying load data, then direct me to it so I can learn more.




I will say this.Use what is called for in the load data. 5 or even 10% may not be much to some but if you figure COAL is reduced, running max powder and you switch to a magnum primer. That could certainly put you in a danger zone.

[LynnJr]

To the OP
Primers are a tuning aid so when you are developing a load and extreme spread or accuracy is not what you want you can swap out the primers which are very cheap compared to swapping out the powder.
In shotshell loading most just follow the book recommendations.
The longer you reload for and the more experience you gain will allow you to make adjustments.

[Kokanee]

To the OP
Primers are a tuning aid so when you are developing a load and extreme spread or accuracy is not what you want you can swap out the primers which are very cheap compared to swapping out the powder.
In shotshell loading most just follow the book recommendations.
The longer you reload for and the more experience you gain will allow you to make adjustments.

Thanks!
That's kind of the gist I was getting.

[whutsup40]

Hodgdonreloading.com, a very good site to check out

[Divernhunter]

Darkking---The ski is falling---The ski is falling.

I am done with you. So many years of experience has shown me otherwise and the books are tuned somewhat by lawyers.

I suggest you do not deviate in any way so you are safe. That includes brass Brand and length, primer brand, powder, bullet brand and exact part number and the all important or your gun will blow up COAL. Just forget that changing that from book specs is one of the ways people tune their load to each firearm for better accuracy. You should not because of the danger of blowing up your firearm.

Again please go around shouting "The ski is falling" over and over and scare some new reloaders. Those of us that have reloaded for years know better

My last post on this thread---Have a nice day and be careful because the ski is falling

[stilly]

Darkking---The ski is falling---The ski is falling.

I am done with you. So many years of experience has shown me otherwise and the books are tuned somewhat by lawyers.

I suggest you do not deviate in any way so you are safe. That includes brass Brand and length, primer brand, powder, bullet brand and exact part number and the all important or your gun will blow up COAL. Just forget that changing that from book specs is one of the ways people tune their load to each firearm for better accuracy. You should not because of the danger of blowing up your firearm.

Again please go around shouting "The ski is falling" over and over and scare some new reloaders. Those of us that have reloaded for years know better

My last post on this thread---Have a nice day and be careful because the ski is falling

I thought skis came in pairs... :\

[LynnJr]

DivernHunter
Doug you have to remember we're your posting. This is CalGuns not Benchrest Central so nothing can deviate and headspace is included in almost every post.
I got banned from the hunting forum because my labradors dont live inside my house and the experts there couldn't even name the birds I was posting pictures of.
I posted a picture of 1100 doves in one picture and was told I was a pompous elitist.

[rsrocket1]

Kokanee,
Welcome to the world of reloading. When it comes to metallic loads (rifle and pistol), the brand of primer is not terribly critical in terms of "hotness". There are other qualities such as harndess of the primer and the ease of setting them off with weakened hammers/strikers. As always, you should work up to a desired load rather than start at a max published load. There is no advantage to using a magnum primer with a slightly smaller powder charge to get the same velocity. You won't be able to measure it so that should not be the reason for buying magnum primers as opposed to standard primers. There may be other reasons such as buying small rifle primers for both handgun and rifle loads to reduce your inventory, but that's another story and shouldn't be standard practice for a beginner. Use the right components for the loads.

Shotshell reloading is very different from metallic reloading. For a beginner (and for most reloaders), you don't "work up" loads, you simply follow the published recipes exactly. You usually have 3 loads per combination of shot weight, hull, wad, powder and primer and you should not substitute any of these when you are reloading. Shotshell pressures have a much narrower range of desirable pressures than metallic. Typically, you want the pressure to be between 9,000 psi and 11,500 psi in 12 gauge. The low end is so you will get a good clean consistent burn and the high end is the safe limit. There are 12 gauge published loads in the 7,000 psi range and they are safe, but they can be smokey, "bloopy" in cold weather and give inconsistent velocities. Compare that to 35,000 psi max for some handguns and 55,000 psi max for some rifles.

Unlike rifle/pistol primers, shotshell primers very greatly in strength between brands and blindly substituting primes should not be practiced and you certainly don't want to blindly use a hot primer to save 3/10 of a penny for 1 less grain of powder. Here's a good article that shows some examples of differing pressures using different primers and even different crimp depths on the hull.. It's usually OK to interpolate (pick a spot inside published endpoints) but not extrapolate (pick a point outside published endpoints) with shotshell reloading. However, if a database shows 3 loads for a particular combination, your powder bushing should get you close and inside those 3 points.

Good luck.

[NapalmCheese]

What drawback is there if any, to using 209A primers vs 209?
Seems that you reduce powder, which saves money......

This one is an easy answer.
Look through reloading data that lists the pressures for loads and uses the same components. You'll find that the loads with the 209A primers are nearly always higher pressure and/or have reduced chargers of the same powder.

For example:

There are two 16 gauge loads using Longshot powder, WAA wads, Remington hulls, and 1 oz of lead shot. One load uses a Fed 209A primer and achieves 1300 fps at 11,100 psi (400 psi under SAAMI max pressure). The other load uses 1.3 grains more powder and a Win 209 primer and achieves 1300 fps at 9,700 psi (1800 psi under SAAMI max). What would happen if you just swapped the Win 209 primer for a Fed 209A primer in the second recipe that uses more powder? What happens if you're loading the first recipe and your powder drops a little heavy? This is often less of a concern for people with modern shotguns, but those of us that like to use old shotguns (one of mine is 89 years old, some of my others are around 70 years old) this issue is more at the forefront of our reloading.

Ultimately it means swapping a Fed 209A primer in place of a Win 209 primer in a recipe is probably not your best bet. Shotguns work in a relatively low pressure area where seemingly small changes can have big effects. Unlike rifles and pistols you can't just drop your charge by 5-10% and work back up looking for pressure signs, they won't show up at the low pressures shotguns work in.

If you want to develop shotgun loads your safest bet is to put some together and send them to someone with the equipment to test them. Tom Armbrust is popular with 16ga loaders.