Reloading 416 barrett

[kcstott]

I grabbed 5 resized casings and here's the average:

ID: .412
OD: .454

I used an RCBS dial caliper. So that alone guarantees the accuracy as compared to a lesser capable caliper by another manufacturer that cost me less money ;-0

For the Lee bashers, I find it funny (although not surprising at all) that you can comment on the quality and functionality of a product you "...have no experience with...". The Lee .416 Barrett dies do what they are supposed to do...full length resize, decap, seat a bullet and crimp. Feel free to overspend for comparable products that do the exact same thing. Your money, your ego, so feed it how you please. I'm quite certain you would be unable to distinguish (by sight, touch or shooting) a .416 round that was reloaded on RCBS equipment versus Lee equipment or any other equipment for that matter. SMH.

See that's where you're very much wrong, I shoot 1000 yard F class NRA matches. I know what my ammo can and cannot do.

I'd be willing to bet you start measuring with micrometers, (not calipers) Neck turning your brass, ordering reamers with specific neck dimensions, checking runout, you'll see the difference. like I said, you use what you like. To me Lee is nothing but a starter set and made for mediocre production ammo.
And by the way, you don't crimp match ammo.... Ever.

[drkphibr]

See that's where you're very much wrong, I shoot 1000 yard F class NRA matches. I know what my ammo can and cannot do.

I'd be willing to bet you start measuring with micrometers, (not calipers) Neck turning your brass, ordering reamers with specific neck dimensions, checking runout, you'll see the difference. like I said, you use what you like. To me Lee is nothing but a starter set and made for mediocre production ammo.
And by the way, you don't crimp match ammo.... Ever.

Since I don't shoot in 1000 yard F class NRA matches, I'll stick with my starter set of dies made for mediocre production ammo that I thoroughly enjoy shooting...hearing it go bang and hitting what I'm aiming at. Very satisfying. I will continue to crimp, always, since I, again, don't shoot match ammo and therefore have no need for micrometers, neck turning or reamers. I don't live to shoot, I shoot to live. Clearly we have different objectives...but that still doesn't change the fact you are bashing dies "you have no experience with". Your words, not mine.

I still bet given all the same components (brass, bullet, powder, primer) you couldn't tell the difference between a round reloaded (and then shot by you) on any vendor's equipment.

[kcstott]

Since I don't shoot in 1000 yard F class NRA matches, I'll stick with my starter set of dies made for mediocre production ammo that I thoroughly enjoy shooting...hearing it go bang and hitting what I'm aiming at. Very satisfying. I will continue to crimp, always, since I, again, don't shoot match ammo and therefore have no need for micrometers, neck turning or reamers. I don't live to shoot, I shoot to live. Clearly we have different objectives...but that still doesn't change the fact you are bashing dies "you have no experience with". Your words, not mine.

I still bet given all the same components (brass, bullet, powder, primer) you couldn't tell the difference between a round reloaded (and then shot by you) on any vendor's equipment.

Yep different objectives and I'm very particular on what i use.

As for bashing dies?? No I'm bashing Lee a company that sells gear marked to entry level reloading. I'm not an entry level reloader.

What i'm having tough time wrapping my around somebody shooting $6 per round plus ammo with entry level gear. Like going and buying a brand new Corvette but using no name tires and expecting it to hold in a turn at a buck a half?? sorry it doesn't work that way.
Again with that mentality Why use decent glass?? Why not mount a Walmart Tasco on it in a set of Weavers??

As for telling the difference. Come talk to me when you can shoot a five shot one hole group at 100 yards. Yeah I can tell when something's off. Be it me or the ammo or the rifle, I can tell.

Did this at 500 yards


Not my best group but still five shots, one hole (barley I'll admit) at 100 yards.

[drkphibr]

Your argument (car/tire analogy) simply doesn't hold up. Your incorrect working assumption is the Lee .416 Barrett sizing die is incapable of doing what the RCBS .416 Barrett sizing die does. Nope. They both do the exact same thing, only at different price points. They both decap and full length resize. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no "Lee spec" versus an "RCBS spec" or a "CH4D spec" for .416 Barrett that each die manufacture decides to build their dies to and hope things just happen to work out.

Again, I have absolutely NO doubt if someone handed you once fired .416 Barrett brass that had been resized you would be unable to determine what vendor's dies did the resizing.

You just happen to believe Lee produces only "entry level" components for the beginning reloader. You seem to equate cost with functionality/performance and limit Lee dies to only entry level reloading. I'm sure I'm not the only non-entry level reloader that does not agree with your position and whose Lee dies work just fine and produce a finished product exactly as they were designed to. If they didn't, they wouldn't still be around generating sales.

Other than your opinion, what exactly about the Lee .416 Barrett dies makes them "cheep (sic) dies"? Since you have "no experience with" them I'm curious what makes you such an authority on these specific dies?

[kcstott]

Your argument (car/tire analogy) simply doesn't hold up. Your incorrect working assumption is the Lee .416 Barrett sizing die is incapable of doing what the RCBS .416 Barrett sizing die does. Nope. They both do the exact same thing, only at different price points. They both decap and full length resize. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no "Lee spec" versus an "RCBS spec" or a "CH4D spec" for .416 Barrett that each die manufacture decides to build their dies to and hope things just happen to work out.

Again, I have absolutely NO doubt if someone handed you once fired .416 Barrett brass that had been resized you would be unable to determine what vendor's dies did the resizing.

You just happen to believe Lee produces only "entry level" components for the beginning reloader. You seem to equate cost with functionality/performance and limit Lee dies to only entry level reloading. I'm sure I'm not the only non-entry level reloader that does not agree with your position and whose Lee dies work just fine and produce a finished product exactly as they were designed to. If they didn't, they wouldn't still be around generating sales.

Other than your opinion, what exactly about the Lee .416 Barrett dies makes them "cheep (sic) dies"? Since you have "no experience with" them I'm curious what makes you such an authority on these specific dies?

When did I indorse RCBS fro a .416 Barrett?? Never. I said Custom dies. Viersco dies to be exact.

as to my experience with Lee. yeah when I started reloading in 1988 they were what was available at the LGS. bought a set of .223 dies and a set of 9mm nato dies. worked well for years. then I bought RCBS and reding and Lymann and Forster and never looked back. Again I'm not here to talk you out of what you're doing. If all you care about is ringing steel at Mid range Lee will do the job.

I sir compete at a different level. I demand the best from my equipment and Lee failed to deliver. their reputation is decent as an inexpensive entry level loading gear company is solid. but you will not see but a few tenths of a percent of top shooters using Lee gear to compete with.
Again we are talking different expectations.
I own RCBS but they are not used for my match loads.. That is reserved for forster, and Viersco.

Does lee build a die with a sliding die chamber?? no they don't the bullet is allowed to sit any ol' way it wants to all the way up until it's seated hoping it's seated concentric with the shell case.. I don't want to hope my bullets are seated concentric, i want to know they are seated concentric. So again you go ahead. use what you like I'll use what i like and get to tighter groups faster.

But if you're just ringing steel then it don't really matter. till you hit the 600 yard line.

I've got a very nice set of Viersco dies for a .408 CT with the same sliding die chamber, I've check run out with my test indicators and find less then .0005" runout. It also has a micrometer depth adjuster so no guessing as to the setting. I feel fine doing what I'm doing. when my bullets are $3.50 each and cases run $3, powder, primers etc.. i want my stuff to be correct. I trust my gear to produce top quality ammo. if you trust yours. thats good. I don't and i don't trust Lee to the level of quality I'm trying to achieve.

[McGuiver]

Reloading 416 barrett

Your argument (car/tire analogy) simply doesn't hold up. Your incorrect working assumption is the Lee .416 Barrett sizing die is incapable of doing what the RCBS .416 Barrett sizing die does. Nope. They both do the exact same thing, only at different price points. They both decap and full length resize. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no "Lee spec" versus an "RCBS spec" or a "CH4D spec" for .416 Barrett that each die manufacture decides to build their dies to and hope things just happen to work out.



Again, I have absolutely NO doubt if someone handed you once fired .416 Barrett brass that had been resized you would be unable to determine what vendor's dies did the resizing.



You just happen to believe Lee produces only "entry level" components for the beginning reloader. You seem to equate cost with functionality/performance and limit Lee dies to only entry level reloading. I'm sure I'm not the only non-entry level reloader that does not agree with your position and whose Lee dies work just fine and produce a finished product exactly as they were designed to. If they didn't, they wouldn't still be around generating sales.



Other than your opinion, what exactly about the Lee .416 Barrett dies makes them "cheep (sic) dies"? Since you have "no experience with" them I'm curious what makes you such an authority on these specific dies?

As someone who once machined for a living, if they are selling a cheaper product, they are cutting corners on tolerances and maybe even material, hardening, etc. Compare apples to apples.

You usually get what you pay for. Lee is mass produced compared to other high end die makers. I have Lee dies too, but I also have Dillon, RCBS, Redding, and Forester dies. My Lee dies usually sit and collect dust. I will tell you they are not as accurate, like kcstott has also stated.


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[LynnJr]

I don't think you can buy dies from Dave Viers anymore. I can't reach him by phone or email.

[kcstott]

I don't think you can buy dies from Dave Viers anymore. I can't reach him by phone or email.

That's kinda funny because I just got a set of 408 CT dies a few weeks ago

He does take his time getting back to you though.

[drkphibr]

As someone who once machined for a living, if they are selling a cheaper product, they are cutting corners on tolerances and maybe even material, hardening, etc. Compare apples to apples.

You usually get what you pay for. Lee is mass produced compared to other high end die makers. I have Lee dies too, but I also have Dillon, RCBS, Redding, and Forester dies. My Lee dies usually sit and collect dust. I will tell you they are not as accurate, like kcstott has also stated.


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The Lee .416 Barrett is 1 1/4" diameter, others are 1 1/2". More material would certainly lead to and justify a higher cost. A small vendor/shop will definitely be more expensive for custom work than a larger shop that has more of a focus on volume sales. I don't think anyone would argue that.

My comments were in response to the Lee "bashing" of labeling, in this case, their .416 die as "cheap" and inferring it was incapable of doing what another .416 decap/sizing die would be able to do. Ummm....it decaps and resizes followed up by one trimming to spec and then chamfering and deburring. At this point the brass either is or is not to spec for additional reloading steps.

Even worse, the comments are an assumption by someone who doesn't have experience with this die and is making general statements. Would be a completely different case if he (or anyone else for that matter) had specific experience with this die to identify why it's of such poor quality in craftsmanship, fit, finish, tolerances, capabilities, etc. Sorry, I just don't buy the argument for this task of decapping and resizing. Realistically, how much better can another brand's die decap? Resize?

For other functions such as seating with a micrometer seating die, no disagreement, you can find other manufactures with additional features not found on Lee dies. Cost benefit trade off we all make.

Back to his car analogy. So is a Chevy (some would consider a cheap brand as compared to others) Corvette a cheap car incapable of doing what it's built to do? There are certainly more expensive sports cars that may have more bells and whistles or go faster or a quicker off the line, but at the end of the day, does the Corvette not function as the car it was built to function as?

[kcstott]

And again what you consider good I consider bottom of the barrel.

Yes their die sure does size and recap the brass. As for to spec?? Who's spec? Saami? Cip? or what my chamber was reamed to?
Again this is my understanding. You guys are using a high dollar rifle and loading the cheapest ammo you can. I just don't get it. Sorry if I'm shelling out that kind of money on a rifle I'm going to build some damn good ammo.
The 408 I load for runs $6 a shot. I'm using top notch dies but if you want to wrench on your vet with harbor freight tools be my guest.
Like I said this I a tool issue not a brand issue.
When I mount scopes for customers I use high end torque wrenches tracible to nist specs. Sure you could use a HF wrench and get the job done but my customers expect more.

I've also never shot a hipoint and know they are junk. But by your rules I'm not allowed to form that option either

[JMP]

I don't think you can buy dies from Dave Viers anymore. I can't reach him by phone or email.

He's tough. I managed to get CheyTac dies after a long time. I ordered another die and paid for it. I checked in, got no response a couple times so I just went a different direction. I heard he was ill so I let it go. If he is still making dies, then he stiffed me. He makes good big dies, but they don't compare to a WTC die. I also tried to get 416 dies from Viers, but I just got RCBS dies since 416 isn't one of my primary cartridges and I wasn't going to wait since I wasn't getting replies. CH4D is a viable alternative to Dave.

[LynnJr]

Factory dies are made to bring your brass down so it fits every chamber.
Custom dies are made to fit a specific chamber.
When your having custom dies built they request you send in 4 cases that have been fired 3-4 times each without sizing.
If the cartridge is a wildcat cartridge it is often not possible to get brass without having custom dies made up to get you close. Neil Jones does this kind of work and it costs alot of money if you need several dies to make your brass.

[LynnJr]

Update
I just got a email from Dave Viers and in it he said he would be making dies again in December.

[kcstott]

Update
I just got a email from Dave Viers and in it he said he would be making dies again in December.

good to hear. Yeah he takes his time getting back to you but up front honest and delivers a top notch product.

I paid good money for CT dies from CT by way of PTG. I sent them back for various reasons, Kiff being one of them. Got my money back and moved on to David Viers. I was delivered what was promised in less than four weeks time.

Now CT don't advertize dies anymore on their site. I wonder why???

PT&G will never see one red cent of my money again. but that's my issue with them.

I will say Dennis Omanoff of CT is a stand up guy, sticks to his word, and is stuck in a hard spot trying to sort out CT's issues.