Reloading 416 barrett

[email]

Not super new to reloading, but new to the 416 barrett caliber.

I'm having issues with the neck sizing.

My neck expander is .416 OD



My fired cases are



.466 OD abd .4145 ID at the neck

When i size the brass, i can feel the neck expander just grazing the neck going in. .001 larger. Then the neck hits the die...oh boy.

This is sized most of the way in. I stopped about 1/4" short so you can get a feel for how far down the neck is getting reduced.



.4435 OD and .402 ID. The ID may be a little off as the edge of the neck was rough. But, the OD shows it was reduced about .023.





What should the die be reducing the neck OD to? (Without the expander) I'm using imperial sizing wax

My thought is that the ID in the neck sizing portion of the die is out of spec (tight)

Help?

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[CSACANNONEER]

Either I'm asleep and missing something or you posted a picture of your neck expander, not neck sizer. Right?

It does appear that you are needlessly overworking your brass. What dies are you using? You might want to contact the manufacturer of your dies and ask what the neck is supposed to size to.

[email]

Either I'm asleep and missing something or you posted a picture of your neck expander, not neck sizer. Right?

It does appear that you are needlessly overworking your brass. What dies are you using? You might want to contact the manufacturer of your dies and ask what the neck is supposed to size to.

You're correct. The neck "expander" is .416. I'll call lee and see what they say about sizing down to .402.

It seems excessive, but I've never reloaded anything bigger than 300BLK so far.

[kcstott]

You're correct. The neck "expander" is .416. I'll call lee and see what they say about sizing down to .402.

It seems excessive, but I've never reloaded anything bigger than 300BLK so far.

Sorry to say But I think you got what you payed for. $4 a shot and using cheep dies makes no sense.

Only way to fix this is to ream the die larger to prevent overworking your brass. Buy a .460 reamer from McMaster carr and run it through. that will give you .006" crush, then the standard expander ball will open it right up. But it's not worth the effort. Get ahold of Blackdiamondrifles.com and order a set of dies. Takes about a month to get but they work perfect out of the box and for a little more you can get it with a neck bushing. I have a set here i keep for a customer of mine in .408 complete with the micrometer seater.

[Whiterabbit]

your fired brass is .414" ID? is that right?

Also, ream a die on the inside? Every die I've worked was a real bear, and that was avoiding the bearing surfaces. I have a hard time imagining a reamer going in easy. You ever do that? is it pretty straightforward to ream (or even turn) the inside of a die?

[email]

your fired brass is .414" ID? is that right?

about .414 or .415, yes. The brass is free from a friend who's not reloading (Barrett M99)

[CSACANNONEER]

Sorry to say But I think you got what you payed for. $4 a shot and using cheep dies makes no sense.

Only way to fix this is to ream the die larger to prevent overworking your brass. Buy a .460 reamer from McMaster carr and run it through. that will give you .006" crush, then the standard expander ball will open it right up. But it's not worth the effort. Get ahold of Blackdiamondrifles.com and order a set of dies. Takes about a month to get but they work perfect out of the box and for a little more you can get it with a neck bushing. I have a set here i keep for a customer of mine in .408 complete with the micrometer seater.

While I don't use Lee dies for loading 50BMG, I have a set of Lee BMG dies for an emergency back up. I have owned and used Lee dies to load .510 DTC and have never had any problems with them. I know match shooters and even commercial reloaders who use Lee 50BMG presses and dies with great results.

[Whiterabbit]

about .414 or .415, yes. The brass is free from a friend who's not reloading (Barrett M99)

Still confused. You are reloading for your own 416B using brass that is from someone elses 416B, and considering the "as fired" condition from his rifle?

Just trying to understand the origins of the photo.

Realistically, the only way I can even imagine .414 being the neck ID from as-fired brass is if your instrumentation is wrong.

Frankly it has to be! or else you will put your expander ball through that brass and the bullet will plunk right through and the case not chamber, right?

[drkphibr]

Two challenging areas I had with my .416 efforts (plenty of videos I made along the way... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNw...1vlEUTuaU_rMKg) were resizing and trimming. Once I tweaked my resizing die (adjusting the seating depth) and corrected the trimming mandrel (Lee incorrectly made the first mandrel...correct length, but incorrect taper for flash hole seating) all has been well.

I too am using "cheep (sic) dies". If you look at the cost (and size) of Lee dies, they are ~$100 or so for .416 Barrett. They are 1 1/4" diameter, so a bit smaller and about $200 cheaper than the 1 1/2" RCBS version. I've never been a fan of spending 3x on something that will work just fine for 1/3 the price. As far as I'm concerned, and speaking from experience, the Lee .416 Barrett set is a huge chunk of well made steel dies. I'm just approaching my 100th reload (and probably 2x+ that on brass sizing/trimming) on them and have absolutely nothing negative to say.

[email]

Still confused. You are reloading for your own 416B using brass that is from someone elses 416B, and considering the "as fired" condition from his rifle?

Just trying to understand the origins of the photo.

Realistically, the only way I can even imagine .414 being the neck ID from as-fired brass is if your instrumentation is wrong.

Frankly it has to be! or else you will put your expander ball through that brass and the bullet will plunk right through and the case not chamber, right?

I've been given once-fired 416 brass (Barrett). It was fired through a friend's Model 99. The brass in the photo was tumbled with Wet SS media, so it looks clean. I then full-length size, deprime, prime, charge and seat.

Very possible my calipers are wrong. They're digital cheapo Franklin armory.

I will dig up my mitutoyo dial caliper and re-measure later.

Yes, I'm surprised that the ID of the fired cases was .4145 I did check around a few times on that one case, but I will check others to get an average. Maybe that one was an outlier.

What gets me is that the die seems to pull the OD of the neck down over .020 That just seems excessive and causes me to really pull hard to get back over the neck expander mandrel on the way back down.

More info as I have time.

[email]

Two challenging areas I had with my .416 efforts (plenty of videos I made along the way... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNw...1vlEUTuaU_rMKg) were resizing and trimming. Once I tweaked my resizing die (adjusting the seating depth) and corrected the trimming mandrel (Lee incorrectly made the first mandrel...correct length, but incorrect taper for flash hole seating) all has been well.

I too am using "cheep (sic) dies". If you look at the cost (and size) of Lee dies, they are ~$100 or so for .416 Barrett. They are 1 1/4" diameter, so a bit smaller and about $200 cheaper than the 1 1/2" RCBS version. I've never been a fan of spending 3x on something that will work just fine for 1/3 the price. As far as I'm concerned, and speaking from experience, the Lee .416 Barrett set is a huge chunk of well made steel dies. I'm just approaching my 100th reload (and probably 2x+ that on brass sizing/trimming) on them and have absolutely nothing negative to say.

What's your OD of the neck expander mandrel? Mine mic'd out at .416" I'm thinking I may have a caliper problem, rather than a die/mandrel problem. :/

[mrkubota]

Not super new to reloading, but new to the 416 barrett caliber.

I'm having issues with the neck sizing.

My neck expander is .416 OD

...

.4435 OD and .402 ID. The ID may be a little off as the edge of the neck was rough. But, the OD shows it was reduced about .023.

...
What should the die be reducing the neck OD to? (Without the expander) I'm using imperial sizing wax

My thought is that the ID in the neck sizing portion of the die is out of spec (tight)

Help?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

I use the RCBS die set...
The expander measures .406"
The sized ID of the neck without the expander in place measures .402"
The neck ID sized WITH the expander in place measures .404-.405"

I made my .416 brass from BMG cases, so I don't know if it compares well to 'factory' .416 barrett in your example. It chambers/shoots fine from my bolt gun and a customer's semi-auto.

[email]

I could live with pulling back .004 on the way down, but .016 is a heavy pull. Once the expander pulled free of the top clamping system, so i ended up with a loose case with the expander sticking out. No way to reseat in the die....no way to pull out by hand. I just cut the case.


Doesn't this expander look backwards? The depriming pin is downwards. It would just seem to make more sense if the lighter taper would be used on the downward stroke when expanding the neck.


Update....measurements with dial caliper i trust.


Expander .4145 (ish)



Necked down .402"



Once fired and cleaned .416"



Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[kcstott]

your fired brass is .414" ID? is that right?

Also, ream a die on the inside? Every die I've worked was a real bear, and that was avoiding the bearing surfaces. I have a hard time imagining a reamer going in easy. You ever do that? is it pretty straightforward to ream (or even turn) the inside of a die?

That's why i said it's not worth the effort. and yes i have made my own dies, and Modified factory sets. You need good fixturing, Carbide and some balls.

There is a high likelihood of ruining the dies if you don't know what you are doing.. Again not worth the effort and why i suggested a new set of trusted quality dies.

I could live with pulling back .004 on the way down, but .016 is a heavy pull. Once the expander pulled free of the top clamping system, so i ended up with a loose case with the expander sticking out. No way to reseat in the die....no way to pull out by hand. I just cut the case.


Doesn't this expander look backwards? The depriming pin is downwards. It would just seem to make more sense if the lighter taper would be used on the downward stroke when expanding the neck.


Update....measurements with dial caliper i trust.


Expander .4145 (ish)



Necked down .402"



Once fired and cleaned .416"



Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Measuring ID with calipers is good if you are only looking to get +/-.001" reading the little flats make it difficult to get a true diameter reading. The larger the OD the better the reading with calipers.

To all the Lee Fan boys you go right ahead. I own a couple of sets of 7/8" Lee dies and they are junk but I also bought them when I was poor too. As for their larger stuff I have no experience with them but I have a hard time believing a $90 set of dies in this size class is going to be worth a damn or last a good long time. That and I just don't trust Lee to make a quality product. My Cheep stuff is RCBS, Honaday and Lymann, my higher end is Redding and Forster. Use what you like. As to the comment of paying 3x more for dies. I bet you don't have a problem spending good money on glass, or barrels do you? Penny wise dollar foolish in my opinion. I'm sorry dies are tool and should not be Cheaped out on. Cheap out on brass, try to score a deal on powder and bullets, but don't skimp on your tools. Took a $150 set of caliper to prove his cheep set was incorrect?? same principle.

[drkphibr]

What's your OD of the neck expander mandrel? Mine mic'd out at .416" I'm thinking I may have a caliper problem, rather than a die/mandrel problem. :/

I grabbed 5 resized casings and here's the average:

ID: .412
OD: .454

I used an RCBS dial caliper. So that alone guarantees the accuracy as compared to a lesser capable caliper by another manufacturer that cost me less money ;-0

For the Lee bashers, I find it funny (although not surprising at all) that you can comment on the quality and functionality of a product you "...have no experience with...". The Lee .416 Barrett dies do what they are supposed to do...full length resize, decap, seat a bullet and crimp. Feel free to overspend for comparable products that do the exact same thing. Your money, your ego, so feed it how you please. I'm quite certain you would be unable to distinguish (by sight, touch or shooting) a .416 round that was reloaded on RCBS equipment versus Lee equipment or any other equipment for that matter. SMH.