Multiple Case Head Separations - Factory Ammo

[maidendeth13]

Update 11/10/16
Ended up having to run to Houston yesterday so threw the rifle in the car and stopped by a gunsmith after I was done working.

What I learned/now believe.

It is an excessive headspace issue however the problem is on the BCG side not the chamber side.

My bolt would close on the go and the no-go gauge.

A different bolt he had there would not close on the no-go gauge.

Most likely the issue is related to the actual bolt rather than the carrier but I'm not sure yet if it's related to the bolt face being overly recessed,or the lugs being to short or what the deal is.

I did have another BCG delivered yesterday though so I'm going to swap it out and call Phase 5 tactical to see what they say.

Thanks for all the help guys.




Stuck Case removed but still need help going forward. Any suggestions on how to determine cause of failure and how to remedy would be appreciated.

Thanks!


Was at a carbine course this weekend and experienced 3 case head separations today.

First was while doing a moving and shooting drill. Thought it was just a double feed but on looking down I saw the case head and realized what had happened.

At that point the gun was dirty and dry but still firing fine until then. I did have lots of failure to feeds where I'd have to use the forward assist but once in battery it'd run fine.

At lunch I took the bolt apart, cleaned it up and used some frog lube to lubricate it.

After another few hundred rounds I was not having any issues with feeding but experienced another double feed due to a case head separation.

I cleared that, fired another shot and had the same issue, except this time the upper half of the casing remained in the chamber. 2 in a row was enough for me so I hung it up and shot a pistol the last hour of the class.

On that I have 2 questions.

1 - How do I clear the remainder of the casing from the chamber.

2 - What was causing this and how do I fix it?

More background info.

1 - PSA M4 Premium upper - Not the PTAC or freedom line. 16" barrel.

2 - Put the lower together myself with a PSA MOE Lower build kit and never had problems before.

3 - Phase 5 tactical BCG. This may have something to do with it as it would not stay lubed. I bought the rifle 2 days before the whack job shot up the elementary school in Connecticut and it was the only BCG available when I got it (took 3 months to find one in stock!).

4 - Gun was fairly dirty to start with and only got dirtier throughout the course (~500 rds/day). I did clean the BCG at lunch today though and the frog lube did seem to be keeping it running great. (First separation was before frog lube).

5 - Factory ammo. Federal Premium XM193BK from a case. Opened the case this weekend so haven't used it before.

6 - Ammo ran fine in some other peoples guns after mine went down. (only fired another 1-200 rds though so not a great sample size.

Any help is appreciated! I did search but only found information regarding reloaded ammo and nothing for factory ammo...

Thank you!

[TKM]

Broken case extractor. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-to...prod23311.aspx

I'm pretty sure it's not the ammo or your bolt.

[acoop101]

Another thing that can work is a 30 Cal bore brush and jam it into the case remains that are stuck in the chamber, that can some times offer enough grip on the case to get it loose. I would check the headspace on the rifle if you are getting case head separation on factory ammo.

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[bsumoba]

this probably has nothing to do with your issue, but I would stay away from frog lube. If left somewhat caked on, it will actually gum up and only until it gets warm does it liquify. Use an actual oil for BCGs.

to clear the stuck case, some use a cleaning rod. if that doesn't work, I would use your google-Foo to research more on how to clear a stuck case in an AR.

the usual suspect for case head separation is excess headspace. you might have some ammo that is sized a tad small. try other ammo and see if the problem goes away.

[usmcspud]

Chamber dirty? Shot lacquered surplus and not clean chamber before this session?

[Enfield47]

To verify if it's a headspace issue, you can rent a set of go no-go gauges for only $7.00. https://www.reamerrentals.com/Produc...ode=223Rem%2Eg

[maidendeth13]

Thanks for the link on the broken case extractor!

Will pick one up.

I'm not normally a frog lube user but that's what was available as I left my box of cleaning stuff at home.

I've only ever shot PMC and american eagle .223 through it before so it's most likely nothing related to the previous ammo.

Is headspace an issue that would develop over time? i.e. Is it possible that I could fire 1k rounds over the past year or so and have no issues, then suddenly a headspace issue comes up?

[McGuiver]

Multiple Case Head Separations - Factory Ammo

Thanks for the link on the broken case extractor!

Will pick one up.

I'm not normally a frog lube user but that's what was available as I left my box of cleaning stuff at home.

I've only ever shot PMC and american eagle .223 through it before so it's most likely nothing related to the previous ammo.

Is headspace an issue that would develop over time? i.e. Is it possible that I could fire 1k rounds over the past year or so and have no issues, then suddenly a headspace issue comes up?

I had a case head separation in my single shot 223 rifle. I tried everything including the old brush trick. Nothing would unstick it. I ordered a UTG 223 broken shell extractor. It works like a charm.



Case extractor by itself...



Inserted into case...



Extractor pulls back on broken shell extractor and pulls down on the mouth of the shell.

I loaded this brass one to many times. I think I had about 11 or 12 times. I know what to look for now when the cases are thinning out.

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[acoop101]

Thanks for the link on the broken case extractor!

Will pick one up.

I'm not normally a frog lube user but that's what was available as I left my box of cleaning stuff at home.

I've only ever shot PMC and american eagle .223 through it before so it's most likely nothing related to the previous ammo.

Is headspace an issue that would develop over time? i.e. Is it possible that I could fire 1k rounds over the past year or so and have no issues, then suddenly a headspace issue comes up?

Head space doesn't usually change unless your barrel and extension are two parts. It could also be a bad batch of brass too, try a different lot of ammo and see if you continue to have the problem.

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[maidendeth13]

Picked up the case head extractor from Midway and it worked great. Put it in there, closed the bolt (as far as it would go at least), pulled back the charging handle and it popped right out.

Now I gotta figure out the headspace (or whatever the cause is) issue.

Thanks for the suggestions!

[fguffey]

What caused it when using new ammo? I am the fan of cutting down on case travel, I am also the fan of knowing which direction the case is traveling. The most difficult event to understand what is going on with the case when fired. Most believe the shoulder moves, if the shoulder on my cases moves I have a good chance to experience case head separation. Most reloaders believe the firing pin drives the case forward to the shoulder of the chamber before the firing pin crushes the primer. If that happens to my cases in my chambers I have stretch between the case head and case body and there is nothing I can do about it except reduce case travel.

I would suggest you determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face and then measure the length of your cases from the shoulder of the case to the case head.

F. Guffey

[maidendeth13]

Thanks for the suggestions all.

F. Guffey, is that related to the headspace? I've reloading stuff but no headspace gauges or anything. I can pick some up if I need to though.

[maidendeth13]

Bump. Would really like to be up and running ASAP again.

Any suggestions on how to determine the cause and then how to fix it would be appreciated.


Thanks!

[pacrat]

Bump. Would really like to be up and running ASAP again.

Any suggestions on how to determine the cause and then how to fix it would be appreciated.


Thanks!

Cause "may" be a "headspace v ammo" conflict. If your rifle was set up with maximum headspace allowed and the ammo is minimum allowed. Coupled with some funky case metallurgy. And bingo case separation.

Try This............invert a 32 acp cartridge case over the neck of a fired problem case that didn't separate. Measure from base to base on the cases. Pull a bullet from one of the problem ammo cases. Now do the same, invert the 32 acp and measure.

That will tell you not what the headspace is. But it will tell you how much that factory ammo is stretching in your chamber.

If the differential is over about .010" to .012". Sell or trade that ammo to someone with a shorter chamber.

Sorry, that's all I got. Will solve nothing. But will give you more info with which to make an informed choice of options.

[noylj]

See gunsmith with Go-No Go gage and be sure your chamber is in spec.