Case head separation...223 caliber...

[pacrat]

Couldn't annealing the brass will make it last longer?
After shooting the same brass 4 or 5 times before it needs to be annealed?

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Yes, but only the top end of the case, [neck/shoulder] to make it more amendable to sizing in that area. You never want to soften the bottom two thirds to three quarters of the case. That will guarantee blown primers and head seperations early on.

The OP is also shooting a single shot break open rifle. Not known for tight chambers, and intentionally a bit large to make for easier extraction. By undersizing during his FL operation he drastically reduced case life. Adjusting his technique to a slight shoulder bump, rather than a FL set back. His cases will IMO last many times longer.

JM2c

[tvfreakarms]

Yes, but only the top end of the case, [neck/shoulder] to make it more amendable to sizing in that area. You never want to soften the bottom two thirds to three quarters of the case. That will guarantee blown primers and head seperations early on.

The OP is also shooting a single shot break open rifle. Not known for tight chambers, and intentionally a bit large to make for easier extraction. By undersizing during his FL operation he drastically reduced case life. Adjusting his technique to a slight shoulder bump, rather than a FL set back. His cases will IMO last many times longer.

JM2c

Yea I should of mentioned just annealing the top and shoulder area.
I know that much. I did a little research about annealing brass.
I'm just wondering if this is a common thing among reloaders.

My question is if you do anneal, how much more can you get out of that brass vs not annealing brass (assuming ur not loading it hot)?

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[Bill Steele]

Annealing serves a few purposes, it softens work hardened brass so case mouths will last longer (not split as easily) and also promotes better neck tension as work hardened brass has more spring in it, so whe the sizing die is removed from the neck, it retains its dimensions versus springing back,

I anneal my cases every 5 loadings. When loading on the bench with cpsuccessive shots, I can feel the difference in neck tension with each successive shot I reload in the same case, so annealing definitely helps with neck tension consistency.

It sounds like the OP knows what is going on now, alls well that ends well.

[McGuiver]

Case head separation...223 caliber...

I appreciate all the help and input on this thread. It has helped a lot. I now need to go thru my brass and check the rest of it for an inner ring at the base. I have a 3 gallon buckets worth. I know that after 4 firings the brass has stretched almost 0.015". That brass is coming from somewhere. It has flowed from near the base. That round had probably grown almost 0.060" over all 12 firings (3 or 4 trimmings and FL resizes), hence separation.

I think I really need to cast my chamber with CerroSafe once I get the stuck case out. This way I will have an exact measurement of where the shoulders on my brass should end up. I'm picking up another 223 rifle next week (AR-15). Now I will have to deal with 2 different chambers.

Thanks everyone again for your input. For the record I don't smash my die into the shell holder to bump back the shoulder. Only enough bump back to fit the gage. I know that may be to much, but need to cast my chamber to get a solid look at it on a optical comparator and measure the critical dimensions.

I have tossed away into my scrap bucket many pieces of 223 brass with split necks. This one had a different failure. I guess my brass scrap buck will be getting some pals once I check all my 223 brass.

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[Metal God]

Although casting your chamber is kinda cool



It's not going to help you in this instance .
1) you would need something to measure the casting like the Hornady head space gauge

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator

2) You're not going to be able to get a complete casting because you would need to have the bolt closed or action closed . Not a good idea having the casting drying around the extractor and leaking into other parts of the action .

3) It's not needed anyways period . Buy the Hornady gauge linked above and use it to measure your fire formed cases . your fire formed cases should ver very close to the same size as your chamber . To get it dead nuts use cases that you fired 2 or 3 times neck only sizing in between firings . This will insure the case has fully formed to your chamber . Take a fire formed case and use the "comparator" to compare that case to your sized case . You will want the sized case to be .002 to .004 shorter then your fire formed case depending on the firearm the case was fired from . semi autos .004 bolt types .002

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4HsgB6u2sI

[dwalker]

I have a set of 6.5 Grendel cases that have 14 loadings on them. The only case head separation I have seen was when Johns gun fired out of battery.

I used to track my .223/5.56 brass loadings but now I tend to lose them before the 5th loading so stopped bothering to keep track.

I find some powders like BLC(2) are really hot and beat the crap out of the brass, which is one of the reasons why I went to CFE223 and TAC.

I also stopped using Lee etc. dies and went with the RCBS Competition, Forster, Redding, and Whidden dies for all precision/long range ammo. I have settled on the RCBS Competition and Whidden dies.

I think it would be to your advantage to cast your chamber and have a set of dies made for that gun. I would also consider a different brass. For what you are doing I would use Lapua, Winchester, Prvi Partisan, etc. as they are among my favorite to use for long range and precision brass.

[dwalker]

Although casting your chamber is kinda cool



It's not going to help you in this instance .
1) you would need something to measure the casting like the Hornady head space gauge

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/479704/hornady-lock-n-load-headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator

2) You're not going to be able to get a complete casting because you would need to have the bolt closed or action closed . Not a good idea having the casting drying around the extractor and leaking into other parts of the action .

3) It's not needed anyways period . Buy the Hornady gauge linked above and use it to measure your fire formed cases . Take a fire formed case and use the "comparator" to compare that case to your sized case . You will want the sized case to be .002 to .004 shorter then your fire formed case depending on the firearm the case was fired from . semi autos .004 bolt types .002
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4HsgB6u2sI

He is shooting these out of a single shot gun for accuracy. Not sure of the model. I think it would be to his advantage to have Whidden or Redding make him a sizing die for his gun.

[milotrain]

Or at least find a die that works lightly on the brass. Often one die is especially close to the chamber of your rifle and other dies work the brass too much.

Any idea what the chamber is?

[Metal God]

Have hou ever cast a chamber ? To get the measurement he wants ( breach face to datum point on chamber shoulder ) you must have the action closed . So now i ask how do you get the casting material in the chamber with the action closed ? Poor it down the bore , no . Poor it in the chamber to over flow then close the action , no , both of those are going to get that casting material in all kinds of places you dont wont it . On e it cools and gets hard good look getting it out or even the action back open .

How would you get a complete casting of the chamber from breach face to center of shoulder ?

[pacrat]

As MG stated, a chamber casting would be an exercise in futility.

You can't measure headspace on a casting.

Because that is measured from base to datum. Base on a casting is a rough crooked mess. So all you can accurately measure is the various diameters of the casting.

JM2c

[dwalker]

Have hou ever cast a chamber ? To get the measurement he wants ( breach face to datum point on chamber shoulder ) you must have the action closed . So now i ask how do you get the casting material in the chamber with the action closed ? Poor it down the bore , no . Poor it in the chamber to over flow then close the action , no , both of those are going to get that casting material in all kinds of places you dont wont it . On e it cools and gets hard good look getting it out or even the action back open .

How would you get a complete casting of the chamber from breach face to center of shoulder ?

I have actually cast a chamber or two.

The shooter needs a die that does not work his brass as much. A casting will show if he has a "loose" or "tight" chamber and an appropriate sizing die made that will not overwork the brass. I have tried to have dies made off of measurements but it seems to work better to supply the die-maker a casting along with measurements. The die maker can also build in the "bump" needed based on the brass the shooter will send to them.

Or at least, thats what worked for me on my set of Redding 6x45 dies...

[fguffey]

As MG stated, a chamber casting would be an exercise in futility.

You can't measure headspace on a casting.

Because that is measured from base to datum. Base on a casting is a rough crooked mess. So all you can accurately measure is the various diameters of the casting.

JM2c

I like that "you can't" as MG said he can't, that leave me, I am the only one that can. I will not disagree with the exercise in futility. For me it is not a an effort in futility, for me it is so much easier to choose one of three other methods and or techniques.

F. Guffey

[pacrat]

Replies in BOLD.

I have actually cast a chamber or two.

As have I, times a factor of 5

The shooter needs a die that does not work his brass as much.

OK, agreed

A casting will show if he has a "loose" or "tight" chamber and an appropriate sizing die made that will not overwork the brass.

In relation to dimensional diameters only, I agree


I have tried to have dies made off of measurements but it seems to work better to supply the die-maker a casting along with measurements. The die maker can also build in the "bump" needed based on the brass the shooter will send to them.

Or at least, thats what worked for me on my set of Redding 6x45 dies...

It has yet to be determined if the OP is willing to have a set of custom dies made, as some have suggested. Which would cost him more than his single shot break open .223 is worth.

He only asked about causation of his head seperations. Which has been adequately answered and does not require custom dies to remedy.

And then there is the Guffster. Dropping into a thread and making claims he is the only person in the entire world who can eat a Cerro-Safe chamber casting and fart multicolored rainbows.

I'm out of this one, Bye.

[fguffey]

And then there is the Guffster. Dropping into a thread and making claims he is the only person in the entire world who can eat a Cerro-Safe chamber casting and fart multicolored rainbows.

I'm out of this one, Bye.

It does not get better or smarter when a reloaders goes to another forum. A bench rest type shooter ask about casting a chamber on the Reloaders Nest. Because I am not responsible for the content of responses made by members on that forum I was not embarrassed. I contacted the inquiring mind and apologized for their behavior and for that he thanked me. He could not figure how they could get away with insulting him.

Anyhow I had him contact me by phone; the man was very talented and a fast learner. It was not long before he was casting chambers. He did ask me if I had any ideal what was wrong with the rude members on that forum. I suggested they felt threatened because they did not know and did not want anyone else to know.. He had a few more questions.

F. Guffey

[dwalker]

Replies in BOLD.



It has yet to be determined if the OP is willing to have a set of custom dies made, as some have suggested. Which would cost him more than his single shot break open .223 is worth.

He only asked about causation of his head seperations. Which has been adequately answered and does not require custom dies to remedy.

And then there is the Guffster. Dropping into a thread and making claims he is the only person in the entire world who can eat a Cerro-Safe chamber casting and fart multicolored rainbows.

I'm out of this one, Bye.

I merely said it would be to his advantage to do so, not that he had to have a set of dies made.
I understand that changing the bump might (likely) will help with case life. I also know that a set of dies that are not working the brass so hard will help more.