Case head separation...223 caliber...

[McGuiver]

I just had my first case head separation in my single shot 223 rifle. Bullet cleared the rifle bore. I have put about 2k rounds thru this rifle so far. I think it just happened to be a bad piece of brass. These rounds were neck sized only and loaded with CFE 223 powder. Bullet was a 55gr FMJ (M193).

I looked into getting CerroSafe to pour into stuck case and knock out. I also looked at a broken shell extractor too.

Anyone have experience with either of these?


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[acoop101]

Before you go to all the trouble of buying more to try a 30 caliber or 40 caliber cleaning brush and put it in the chamber . Usually that will provide enough grip on the remaining case piece to pull it out of the chamber with no damage and you'd only be out a dollar or two for the brush.

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[McGuiver]

Before you go to all the trouble of buying more to try a 30 caliber or 40 caliber cleaning brush and put it in the chamber . Usually that will provide enough grip on the remaining case piece to pull it out of the chamber with no damage and you'd only be out a dollar or two for the brush.

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Thanks, I will try this. The neck sized only cases are a little harder to extract then the full length sized ones. Neck sized only seem to be more accurate with greater velocity for the same load.


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[McGuiver]

Case head separation...223 caliber...

Here are some pics from the head that was removed...now to remove the case...







9mm case on top for size reference.



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[Bill Steele]

I would exhaust my other options on extraction before going to cerrosafe or equivalent.

I am not sure I understand the hard extraction and greater velocity with neck sizing. That has never been my experience with my bench guns and neck sizing.

Hard extraction and greater velocity means more pressure to me, more pressure than is desirable. I am not saying this is why you had the case head separation, but it would be something I looked very closely at before dismissing it out of hand.

Do you keep cycle counts on your cases? Also, are you inspecting your cases for incipient case head separation, there are videos on youtube explaining how to inspect your brass with a bent paperclip end and visually. Most cases that are about to fail will show some signs of incipient failure.

Just a few random thoughts.

[McGuiver]

Case head separation...223 caliber...

I would exhaust my other options on extraction before going to cerrosafe or equivalent.



I am not sure I understand the hard extraction and greater velocity with neck sizing. That has never been my experience with my bench guns and neck sizing.



Hard extraction and greater velocity means more pressure to me, more pressure than is desirable. I am not saying this is why you had the case head separation, but it would be something I looked very closely at before dismissing it out of hand.



Do you keep cycle counts on your cases? Also, are you inspecting your cases for incipient case head separation, there are videos on youtube explaining how to inspect your brass with a bent paperclip end and visually. Most cases that are about to fail will show some signs of incipient failure.



Just a few random thoughts.

I had 12 reloads on this case. I do keep track of that. All the other brass looked fine on the outside. I have not annealed any of these cases other then the original factory annealing. No problems with neck tension. I can get away with neck sizing about 3 to 4 times, then I full length size and trim. This is not a bolt gun, just a single shot break action rifle, not the strongest ejector. I will start to inspect the inside of the cases. I notice from FL resizing to neck sizing only, I may gain up to 100 feet per second for the same load. This is when I was hand trickling the powder. Now I'm just using a RCBS Uniflow to throw the powder.

The only powders I have loaded for 223 are BLC2, Benchmark, CFE-223, Reloader-7, and Trail Boss (subsonic). I do like Reloader-7 and Benchmark for 40gr Nosler Ballistic Tip ammo. I'm pushing the 40gr to max velocity at 3800 FPS. This round was a 55gr FMJ, middle of the road load. It could have been a previous 40gr piece of brass, I will start keeping them separate by loads and count those. I have been lumping all my 223 brass together and keeping a round count.

I tend to avoid BLC2. Seems to heat everything up faster. Makes the brass hotter too.

Thanks for the info.

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[tvfreakarms]

I would exhaust my other options on extraction before going to cerrosafe or equivalent.

I am not sure I understand the hard extraction and greater velocity with neck sizing. That has never been my experience with my bench guns and neck sizing.

Hard extraction and greater velocity means more pressure to me, more pressure than is desirable. I am not saying this is why you had the case head separation, but it would be something I looked very closely at before dismissing it out of hand.

Do you keep cycle counts on your cases? Also, are you inspecting your cases for incipient case head separation, there are videos on youtube explaining how to inspect your brass with a bent paperclip end and visually. Most cases that are about to fail will show some signs of incipient failure.

Just a few random thoughts.

Could you provide a YouTube video link?

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[McGuiver]

https://youtu.be/dppyuA0lmYU

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[McGuiver]

https://youtu.be/qtXMJ6E0BZw

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[McGuiver]

https://youtu.be/UUDClnQcsMQ

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[ptmn]

Cerro safe isn't needed, broken she'll extractors (BSE) are inexpensive, less than $10. If you are near Los Alamitos, I may be able to dig one up.

A better option is for you to make one instead of buying.

1) purchase a wooden dowel that easily fits inside of a 223 case and cut it to length
2) cut a 3/4" slit down one end, then slightly file both edges to create a "V"
3) go to Oreilly Auto and purchase some of the black 400 grit wet/dry sand paper and cut two small straps about 1" long
4) epoxy a strip on each side of the dowel formed by the slit you cut and let it dry overnight
5) insert dowel into the chamber with the slit end towards the muzzle
6) hold the back end of the dowel firmly while pushing a brass one piece rod down the muzzle until it touches the "V" formed by the slit you cut.
7) note the specific section of the rod that touches the muzzle, then remove the rod and place a 2" piece of electrical tape around that section of the rod
8) hold the dowel firmly in the chamber and put the rod back in the the barrel until it again touches the "V"
9) tap the rod so it opens the "V". As the V opens, the 400grit wet/dry grips the wall of the broken case and it gets pushed out the breach.

This is the field expedient method of making a BSE for odd ball rounds while my teams are working overseas. The we normally have standard manufacture BSE's for the common rounds, such as 5.56, 762x51, 762x39 and 762x54.

Good luck and have fun with your new field expedient BSE fabrication project

[Bill Steele]

I had 12 reloads on this case. I do keep track of that. All the other brass looked fine on the outside. I have not annealed any of these cases other then the original factory annealing. No problems with neck tension. I can get away with neck sizing about 3 to 4 times, then I full length size and trim. This is not a bolt gun, just a single shot break action rifle, not the strongest ejector. I will start to inspect the inside of the cases. I notice from FL resizing to neck sizing only, I may gain up to 100 feet per second for the same load. This is when I was hand trickling the powder. Now I'm just using a RCBS Uniflow to throw the powder.

The only powders I have loaded for 223 are BLC2, Benchmark, CFE-223, Reloader-7, and Trail Boss (subsonic). I do like Reloader-7 and Benchmark for 40gr Nosler Ballistic Tip ammo. I'm pushing the 40gr to max velocity at 3800 FPS. This round was a 55gr FMJ, middle of the road load. It could have been a previous 40gr piece of brass, I will start keeping them separate by loads and count those. I have been lumping all my 223 brass together and keeping a round count.

I tend to avoid BLC2. Seems to heat everything up faster. Makes the brass hotter too.

Thanks for the info.

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I am surprised you can load Federal headstamps that many times at anything other than mouse fart levels. Federal has always been too soft for my taste.

On the pressure and velocity thing with neck sizing, I am stumped, I have never seen it and I neck size a lot when bench shooting. I load at the range on the bench using the same case for a string, with Wilson bushing hand dies and have never seen that kind of difference in velocity between F/L sizing and neck sizing. Strange.

The only other thing that comes to mind on the pressure front might be to check the throat with a Borescope after you get that case out. Look for maybe a carbon ring buildup. I have heard of this happening, but never saw it myself.

Good luck.

[liber]

I am surprised you can load Federal headstamps that many times at anything other than mouse fart levels. Federal has always been too soft for my taste.

I'm surprised also. I'm measuring a case with a tube micrometer and the Federal I have is .011". Black Hills Match is about .011" thick also, so go figure. (all 223).

Are Lapua 223 cases thicker? Any cases thicker on 223 than .011" ?

I get about .014" on PMC 308 and .014" - .015 on '68 LC 308 Match for comparison of a different caliber.

[Bill Steele]

I'm surprised also. I'm measuring a case with a tube micrometer and the Federal I have is .011". Black Hills Match is about .011" thick also, so go figure. (all 223).

Are Lapua 223 cases thicker? Any cases thicker on 223 than .011" ?

I get about .014" on PMC 308 and .014" - .015 on '68 LC 308 Match for comparison of a different caliber.

I have some Lapua in both 308 and 223. I don't have my bushing sheet in front of me, still packed, but I can go mic both and see what they end up thickness wise. I have new cases in both, so it will be pretty easy to tell what they start out like.

In the case of various brass, I don't think it is as much a matter of thickness as metallurgy. With FGMM in 308 in the past, I might get 6-7 loadings and that if the first firing was in a reasonable chamber; with Lapua, I push 20.

One of the more knowledgeable contributors on these threads did remark recently he was having good luck with newer FGMM, seems they may have started using better brass. My experience with FGMM was like 3+ years ago.

[Bill Steele]

I'm surprised also. I'm measuring a case with a tube micrometer and the Federal I have is .011". Black Hills Match is about .011" thick also, so go figure. (all 223).

Are Lapua 223 cases thicker? Any cases thicker on 223 than .011" ?

I get about .014" on PMC 308 and .014" - .015 on '68 LC 308 Match for comparison of a different caliber.

I couldn't find my ball end mic, must be still in a box somewhere, so all I had was my best caliper (suboptimal).

Anyway, by repeated measuring I bracketed the new Lapua in both 308 and 223. The 223 came out to .013" nominally at the case mouth and 308 .015".