Unknown Reload Failure - Ideas?

[Bill Steele]

You are absolutely right. My apologies to the OP. I posted without thinking after having a really bad day. I've already deleted my post and will go seat myself in the corner now.

I apologize for coming down as I did to you as well, nobody needs people jumping their case. I think maybe we all can be a little nicer to the people around us who have similar interests.

[Bill Steele]

> with all the condescending "experts"

You do realize that you are the one posting condescending comments. The rest of us are honestly trying to help and can't follow the changing story.
Personally, I have no idea exactly WHAT the OP really did, based on the story changing. Any one who can post that "mess" needs some personal help that we can't give over the internet.
So, if you believe the OP and you believe that Hodgdon data is correct for every lot of TG with every 240gn bullet in every case with every primer in every gun, then the OP could not have had a problem and it is all make-believe...

I can't help you with the definition of the word condescending. You are right I was condescending on my post and that is never a good thing, two wrongs don't make a right, so I apologized for that.

As to the hazards of Titegroup, I suspect in this litigious world if there was any serious risk with using it at 10gr in the above load, Hodgdon would pull the load data. Your impression of the risks posed by Titegroup may very well be right, but then it too might just be something in your head.

You took his question of perhaps a nested case being a possibility as prima facie evidence his reloading procedures were likely faulty. This is the very type of overbearing nonsense that doesn't help someone coming on the thread asking what the problem might be. To me, anyone that can question anything they might have done, without thinking in terms of how it might reflect on their process to others, is far more open minded than someone, like yourself I suspect, who would discount such a possibility out of hand as you KNOW you are above such failures. I have a pet theory that half of all the old wives tales about reloading are caused by guys who refuse to accept the obvious, when it reflects on their knowledge or skill. The simple, "The spikey powder clearly blew my gun up, as I KNOW my process is so perfect, I could never double charge a case; is exactly what I am talking about. Maybe the "Spikey" moniker you ascribe to Titegroup was earned my many people doubling a very dense high energy powder and not being able to admit it.

Your implication throughout your post was the OP didn't know enough to safely load what he was loading. I didn't see anything (beyond the large pistol primer misprint) that indicated the same. I have noticed a lot of your posts center on the same theme, the OP doesn't know what they are doing. This may just be a fantasy in my head, but that is the way you come off a lot of times to me.

It is a beautiful day outside, I think I will go try and enjoy it. Have a good one yourself.

[noylj]

What we have here is a failure to communicate and someone who reads into things what wasn't intended.

>As to the hazards of Titegroup, I suspect in this litigious world if there was any serious risk with using it at 10gr in the above load, Hodgdon would pull the load data. Your impression of the risks posed by Titegroup may very well be right, but then it too might just be something in your head.

Ahh, it is in my head. I guess I'll have to get some mental health help because I have had issues with TG, Clays, and N310 that I have NOT had with any other powders. You know, like you take five weighed charges, all visually and RCBS Lock-Out checked, and one or two of them are nearly 100 fps faster and the two cases are thrown further and the gun recoils more, so I just "suspect" that I "might" have pressure spike problems with that powder. Then, you find this to happen with 9x19, .45 Auto, .38 Super, and .38 Spl, you begin to suspect a trend.
Then, you take that experience and read of someone using this powder in a MUCH larger case and suspecting they might want to use a more traditional .44 Mag powder for safety, consistency, and peace of mind (particularly when they are writing because they have had problems)

>You took his question of perhaps a nested case being a possibility as prima facie evidence his reloading procedures were likely faulty. This is the very type of overbearing nonsense that doesn't help someone coming on the thread asking what the problem might be. To me, anyone that can question anything they might have done, without thinking in terms of how it might reflect on their process to others, is far more open minded than someone, like yourself I suspect, who would discount such a possibility out of hand as you KNOW you are above such failures. I have a pet theory that half of all the old wives tales about reloading are caused by guys who refuse to accept the obvious, when it reflects on their knowledge or skill. The simple, "The spikey powder clearly blew my gun up, as I KNOW my process is so perfect, I could never double charge a case; is exactly what I am talking about. Maybe the "Spikey" moniker you ascribe to Titegroup was earned my many people doubling a very dense high energy powder and not being able to admit it.

Umm, sorry, but HE said he might have loaded a round with a nested case. I think that I would have suggested that he look in every case or turn every case upside down. To me, the fact that he could suggest such a thing meant that his technique is so poor that he needs to do more reading and thinking. Sorry if that is not open minded, but I took his thought seriously and really believe that it means that he is NOT using proper loading techniques and can be a real danger to himself, his gun, and others.
Also, I try to shoot down every old wives tale I keep hearing about and I keep getting nice responses like yours telling me that I am full of balogney for not agreeing with them.

>Your implication throughout your post was the OP didn't know enough to safely load what he was loading. I didn't see anything (beyond the large pistol primer misprint) that indicated the same. I have noticed a lot of your posts center on the same theme, the OP doesn't know what they are doing. This may just be a fantasy in my head, but that is the way you come off a lot of times to me.

Well, thanks for the diagnoses. Please note that I do try to help, but if you can't write a sensible post that logically flows, you can't describe what happened clearly and what you suspect happened all follows from poor technique, I just might mention that you need to do more studying and think about your reloading process. Sorry if that upsets you, but I simply am trying to help the poster and make them think about what they are doing. Also, as I remember, he didn't know what primer he used an he though he could have loaded with a nested case, and he has had a problem, and I am NOT to suspect that his technique is BAD?
As I posted before, if all was well and this was a good load, why did he have a problem? If all you say is true, then he didn't have a problem and he is a troll.
Now, if you want to prove that what I wrote is factually untrue and worthless, that is one thing, but if your only complaint is that I didn't write it nice enough, then that would seem to be your problem (and you might want to go over to your safe space and try to get over my micro-aggressions) and not mine. Report me to the moderator if you want, but we don't need this taking valuable posting space.

I stick by my point: TG is not a powder I would use for .44 Mag and I can easily believe that one can have problems doing so, particularly if you aren't an experienced reloader. You are a LOT safer using a much slower powder and sticking with powders that are commonly used in that cartridge.
Next, manuals only show what worked in their guns with their lot numbers of components and any load in any manual can behave poorly in YOUR gun with YOUR lot numbers of components.
Because of this, I check several sources and start with powders that appear in several manuals and I start at the lowest starting load that those manuals have for that powder and I work up slowly. This has worked for over 40 years without any issue.
But, when someone doesn't know what primer they used and suspects they could load a round with a nested cartridge, I get worried for them. Sorry.

[Bill Steele]

What we have here is a failure to communicate and someone who reads into things what wasn't intended.

>As to the hazards of Titegroup, I suspect in this litigious world if there was any serious risk with using it at 10gr in the above load, Hodgdon would pull the load data. Your impression of the risks posed by Titegroup may very well be right, but then it too might just be something in your head.

Ahh, it is in my head. I guess I'll have to get some mental health help because I have had issues with TG, Clays, and N310 that I have NOT had with any other powders. You know, like you take five weighed charges, all visually and RCBS Lock-Out checked, and one or two of them are nearly 100 fps faster and the two cases are thrown further and the gun recoils more, so I just "suspect" that I "might" have pressure spike problems with that powder. Then, you find this to happen with 9x19, .45 Auto, .38 Super, and .38 Spl, you begin to suspect a trend.
Then, you take that experience and read of someone using this powder in a MUCH larger case and suspecting they might want to use a more traditional .44 Mag powder for safety, consistency, and peace of mind (particularly when they are writing because they have had problems)

>You took his question of perhaps a nested case being a possibility as prima facie evidence his reloading procedures were likely faulty. This is the very type of overbearing nonsense that doesn't help someone coming on the thread asking what the problem might be. To me, anyone that can question anything they might have done, without thinking in terms of how it might reflect on their process to others, is far more open minded than someone, like yourself I suspect, who would discount such a possibility out of hand as you KNOW you are above such failures. I have a pet theory that half of all the old wives tales about reloading are caused by guys who refuse to accept the obvious, when it reflects on their knowledge or skill. The simple, "The spikey powder clearly blew my gun up, as I KNOW my process is so perfect, I could never double charge a case; is exactly what I am talking about. Maybe the "Spikey" moniker you ascribe to Titegroup was earned my many people doubling a very dense high energy powder and not being able to admit it.

Umm, sorry, but HE said he might have loaded a round with a nested case. I think that I would have suggested that he look in every case or turn every case upside down. To me, the fact that he could suggest such a thing meant that his technique is so poor that he needs to do more reading and thinking. Sorry if that is not open minded, but I took his thought seriously and really believe that it means that he is NOT using proper loading techniques and can be a real danger to himself, his gun, and others.
Also, I try to shoot down every old wives tale I keep hearing about and I keep getting nice responses like yours telling me that I am full of balogney for not agreeing with them.

>Your implication throughout your post was the OP didn't know enough to safely load what he was loading. I didn't see anything (beyond the large pistol primer misprint) that indicated the same. I have noticed a lot of your posts center on the same theme, the OP doesn't know what they are doing. This may just be a fantasy in my head, but that is the way you come off a lot of times to me.

Well, thanks for the diagnoses. Please note that I do try to help, but if you can't write a sensible post that logically flows, you can't describe what happened clearly and what you suspect happened all follows from poor technique, I just might mention that you need to do more studying and think about your reloading process. Sorry if that upsets you, but I simply am trying to help the poster and make them think about what they are doing. Also, as I remember, he didn't know what primer he used an he though he could have loaded with a nested case, and he has had a problem, and I am NOT to suspect that his technique is BAD?
As I posted before, if all was well and this was a good load, why did he have a problem? If all you say is true, then he didn't have a problem and he is a troll.
Now, if you want to prove that what I wrote is factually untrue and worthless, that is one thing, but if your only complaint is that I didn't write it nice enough, then that would seem to be your problem (and you might want to go over to your safe space and try to get over my micro-aggressions) and not mine. Report me to the moderator if you want, but we don't need this taking valuable posting space.

I stick by my point: TG is not a powder I would use for .44 Mag and I can easily believe that one can have problems doing so, particularly if you aren't an experienced reloader. You are a LOT safer using a much slower powder and sticking with powders that are commonly used in that cartridge.
Next, manuals only show what worked in their guns with their lot numbers of components and any load in any manual can behave poorly in YOUR gun with YOUR lot numbers of components.
Because of this, I check several sources and start with powders that appear in several manuals and I start at the lowest starting load that those manuals have for that powder and I work up slowly. This has worked for over 40 years without any issue.
But, when someone doesn't know what primer they used and suspects they could load a round with a nested cartridge, I get worried for them. Sorry.

One of Hodgdon's selling points for Titegroup is its particular trait of being position insensitive, that is, especially well suited for big cases with lots of free space. Just go to Hodgdon.com and look up Titegroup, sorry you couldn't get it to work in your large cases, they tout the consistency in large cases as its greatest selling point.

The OP was asking if anyone had an idea what may have happened and you proceeded to go off on your tangent about the suitability of the powder in the load, whether the OP had proper reloading procedures, etc.

You did say at some point along the way that you had no idea what happened in his gun. Well now we are getting somewhere.

PS - To highlight what I am talking about when I say you generally start with the notion that the reloader doesn't know what he is doing can be understood by your clinging to the primer confusion. The guy mistyped what he was using with primers. I asked the question and he corrected it and clearly stated it was mistyped, but you continue to cling to primer confusion as an element of why you suspect he doesn't know what he is doing. Know thyself.

[bheard1836]

Good evening all - Holy Crap what a thread. I appreciate all the input - I am only a couple years and 10,000+ rounds into this hobby and many here are decades ahead of me.
On my last range trip I found my errant brass zipped for safekeeping into a small cleaning kit in my range bag. The verdict is that there was a piece of 9mm nested in the 44 mag. The decapper punched straight through the 9mm primer and decapped the 44 so I ended up with case volume greatly reduced raising pressure way up. I would not have thought that possible without having to put excessive force on the press but it is what I found.
Found a tip on the Midway site to get the broken case out - tight wad of paper in the barrel close to the case mouth and poured in some lead - once cooled tapped it out and case came right out with it.
Valuable lesson on brass inspection learned - how the F%&K the 9 managed to stay in there through the sorting and cleaning process is beyond me but if I had checked inside the case instead of only looking for splits/bulges etc... it would not have happened.
Again, appreciate everyone who took the time to share their thoughts - have a great night.