What have I done here?

[7anthony7]

Is it a universal bullet seater? I've seen some especially 30 cal that if not adjusted to your specific round will do that if you tighten it down to the shell holder before running the round through.

[Bill Steele]

It is impossible to use a neck sizing die to destroy a case by forming a radius on the shoulder. UNLESS! you are using a neck sizing die that is too short and or designed for another case. And then there is that part where you claim you are using lube to seat the bullet. Lube is required for sizing, it is impossible to ignore the bullet protruding from the neck of the case meaning what ever happened to the case happened when the bullet was seated.

When seating a bullet the die does not offer case body support therefore case lube is not required. Again, the neck sizing die is designed to neck size a case without the die touching the shoulder/neck juncture meaning it is impossible to squat a case with a neck sizing die.

One more time, the neck of the die locked onto the bullet while the bullet was being seated. One more time again, I do not do well with guessing games and I know it is not possible to crush a case with a neck sizing die because the die is made for minimum length cases meaning for the die to contact the shoulder the shoulder of the case would have to be at least go-gage length from the shoulder to the case head. Then; again, who measures?

F. Guffey

I didn't read where anyone suggested a neck sizing die was creating the problem.

Everyone reading the thread gets you don't do well with guessing games, at least now they do. Your cryptic comments don't make you sound more informed on the subject, just like a grumpy old guy who doesn't do well with guessing games.

Bringing up references to debates and issues you had with another very informed reloader on past threads on bullet hold versus neck tension doesn't add anything to the current thread, it only serves to further obscure what is being discussed. Frankly the only people who even know what your talking about know all they need to know on that subject, everyone is just confused and perhaps thinks you are starting to lose your grip on reality.

Everyone who frequents these threads knows you have great experience with the subject matter. Instead of being condescending and trying to make the thread about what you don't do well with, just contribute what you know and leave the extraneous stuff on the sideline.

Jeez Louise.

[TexasJackKin]

I've loaded rounds that came out perfect after this one. I'm thinking the suggestion that the case was too long may be what's happening. I'm not using a crimp, just the standard seating die. Does that change anything Bill? And my die is touching the ram at full extension as the instructions say. I also was not trimming cases.
.

Normally, you would not run the seating die down to touch the ram. You put a sized case in the shell holder, and run the ram to the top, screw the die down so it just touches the case, and back off slightly, back the seating stem way back, place a bullet on the case, and run it up full travel into the die, run the seating stem down until it touches the bullet, retract the ram, run the seating stem down a bit, raise the ram, and measure. Run the seating stem down a bit more, measure and repeat until you get the length you're looking for, lock the stem, and load.

And as others have suggested, be mindful of case length after sizing.

Running the sizing die down, until you touch the ram is sometime suggested, but I don't think that is normally suggested for a seating die.

My guess is that you inadvertently crimped the round while you were still seating the bullet, and when the case locked onto the bullet, with the ram still going up, you buckled the shoulder.

[fguffey]

Yeah I'm just neck sizing with an RCBS die. And I'll back off the die and drop my seating stem down to get the correct OAL and seat bullets. The lines are likely because I wasn't using lube at first. I started using case lube and that stopped.

I didn't read where anyone suggested a neck sizing die was creating the problem.

fguffey I do not know what dies you are using, I do not know if you were sizing and or seating bullets. As we all know dies come with instructions.

Forgive, I have never seen anything that wide on a reloading forum. I do not have a die that will make a case that ugly. Somehow you have managed to install something upside down in a die I do not have or you seated the bullet and tried to put a heavy crimp n the neck. Dillon suggest a reloader seat and crimp on two different positions on the press. I do not crimp bottle neck cases. Meaning if the case looked that ugly after sizing you would have noticed.

Again, I do not suggest a new reloader jump into reloading in a dead run. And I ask all the questions, I suggested the OP had dies I do not have because do nothave dies that are not capable of making cases look that ugly. And I am the fan of starting with the A, B, and Cs of reloading.

F. Guffey

[bsumoba]

You're not the only one that has done this.

This was a long time ago, and I do not remember how I did it. All I know is I have not done it ever since.

[Bill Steele]

Again, I do not suggest a new reloader jump into reloading in a dead run. And I ask all the questions, I suggested the OP had dies I do not have because do nothave dies that are not capable of making cases look that ugly. And I am the fan of starting with the A, B, and Cs of reloading.

F. Guffey

I understand, here is another clip from your post above:

"Before the Internet is was decided neck crimping was a bad habit and crimping while seating could reduce bullet hold. And I ask: Why crimp? The crimp is thought to be a method/technique for increasing bullet hold. And then one day someone on the Internet changed the concept of bullet hold to neck tension without a clue about how neck tension can be measured. I measure bullet hold in pounds, I have tension gages, none of my tension gages are calibrated in tensions."

I knew what debate of which you were referring in this part, I am pretty sure a few others do as well, I am also pretty sure most didn't and I am most certain it had absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the current thread.

I had a friend when I was growing up. His dad was a retired Chief Petty Officer and his specialty in the Navy was machinist. Any time he saw us using a tool incorrectly and sometimes when we were doing it correctly, but felt the need to impress us with his knowledge, he would grab the tool out of our hand and start lecturing in a condescending way. He never seemed like he was happy, always condescending, at least to us. All that was accomplished by my friend's dad's approach was as soon as they could, all his kids moved away and never looked back. It is sad as he really knew a lot, but he was such a jerk about it, nobody cared.

Anyway, I will leave it go, neither you or I have enough time left to worry about such things too much.

[JagerDog]

Normally, you would not run the seating die down to touch the ram. You put a sized case in the shell holder, and run the ram to the top, screw the die down so it just touches the case, and back off slightly, back the seating stem way back, place a bullet on the case, and run it up full travel into the die, run the seating stem down until it touches the bullet, retract the ram, run the seating stem down a bit, raise the ram, and measure. Run the seating stem down a bit more, measure and repeat until you get the length you're looking for, lock the stem, and load.

And as others have suggested, be mindful of case length after sizing.

Running the sizing die down, until you touch the ram is sometime suggested, but I don't think that is normally suggested for a seating die.

My guess is that you inadvertently crimped the round while you were still seating the bullet, and when the case locked onto the bullet, with the ram still going up, you buckled the shoulder.

^^^^^this

[TexasJackKin]

Bill,

I like your style. Thinking about retiring to Idaho, myself!

[Bill Steele]

Bill,

I like your style. Thinking about retiring to Idaho, myself!

I tell you what, my only regret is we didn't do it a lot sooner. So far the weather has been awesome (just getting into the third season so far, but pretty unbelievable). We know the winter will be the real challenge, but even if we hate it, the other 3 will make it worthwhile.

When friends ask me what it is like, I just say, it is the America I grew up in, that I thought didn't exist any more. Pretty cool stuff.