What have I done here?

[tquizzle]

Loading 338 tonight and had a shoulder collapse. Can I or should I fix this round? And what caused it?

[fguffey]

I do not know what dies you are using, I do not know if you were sizing and or seating bullets. As we all know dies come with instructions.

Forgive, I have never seen anything that wide on a reloading forum. I do not have a die that will make a case that ugly. Somehow you have managed to install something upside down in a die I do not have or you seated the bullet and tried to put a heavy crimp n the neck. Dillon suggest a reloader seat and crimp on two different positions on the press. I do not crimp bottle neck cases. Meaning if the case looked that ugly after sizing you would have noticed.

F. Guffey

[Cheep]

Looks like that may have been done during the seat/crimp stage. You probably don't need the crimp stage anyway.

[Jon Road King]

It's the crimp. Stop that

My guess is you are trimming with one of the many fine auto trimmers, which indexes off the shoulder. This is great (I do it), but does not trim all cases to the same overall length. Looks like you set up your seat/crimp on a shorter case and then ran into a longer case, which will crush the shoulder when the case is crimped.

Stop crimping. You don't need to. FYI, if I were you, I would run all your loaded rounds through a case gauge to make sure they will seat, because others might be crushed too, but not as obvious.

And don't be ashamed. I am a reformed 5.56 crimper

['ol shooter]

This is what I do. With the seating stem backed out and the ram up, run the die down until it touches the case, then back off half a turn. Seat to the correct length with the seating stem.

[Bill Steele]

The way to fix that round is to pull the bullet, dump the powder, pop the primer out and throw the case away. My guess is the crimp collar pushed the case mouth down collapsing the shoulder.

Maybe go back through your die setup instructions and see where you went wrong, measure each case after sizing and trimming.

If you get bullets with a cannelure and you want to crimp them, get a Lee FCD (the one with the collet style crimper). Don't crimp bullets that don't have a cannelure.

Good luck.

[bazineta]

If none of the above suggestions apply, and you anneal your case necks, then less time in the fire.

[tquizzle]

What have I done here?

I've loaded rounds that came out perfect after this one. I'm thinking the suggestion that the case was too long may be what's happening. I'm not using a crimp, just the standard seating die. Does that change anything Bill? And my die is touching the ram at full extension as the instructions say. I also was not trimming cases.

Guffey, your post just sounds condescending and not really helpful.

[Bill Steele]

I've loaded rounds that came out perfect after this one. I'm thinking the suggestion that the case was too long may be what's happening. I'm not using a crimp, just the standard seating die. Does that change anything Bill? And my die is touching the ram at full extension as the instructions say. I also was not trimming cases.

Guffey, your post just sounds condescending and not really helpful.

If your seating die is set up so the crimp collar never gets down far enough to touch the case mouth while you are seating your bullet, might not be the problem.

If you were full length sizing and then not trimming, that likely is the culprit as cases grow in length when full length sizing and need to be trimmed back to their spec length.

Looking at the case mouth, it kind of looks like you were neck sizing with a Lee mandrel sizer (the vertical lines) or maybe a bushing die. If you are neck sizing only, usually the case length doesn't grow enough to cause what you are seeing. If that is how you are sizing, it is a real stumper.

[tquizzle]

If your seating die is set up so the crimp collar never gets down far enough to touch the case mouth while you are seating your bullet, might not be the problem.

If you were full length sizing and then not trimming, that likely is the culprit as cases grow in length when full length sizing and need to be trimmed back to their spec length.

Looking at the case mouth, it kind of looks like you were neck sizing with a Lee mandrel sizer (the vertical lines) or maybe a bushing die. If you are neck sizing only, usually the case length doesn't grow enough to cause what you are seeing. If that is how you are sizing, it is a real stumper.

Yeah I'm just neck sizing with an RCBS die. And I'll back off the die and drop my seating stem down to get the correct OAL and seat bullets. The lines are likely because I wasn't using lube at first. I started using case lube and that stopped.

[Bill Steele]

Yeah I'm just neck sizing with an RCBS die. And I'll back off the die and drop my seating stem down to get the correct OAL and seat bullets. The lines are likely because I wasn't using lube at first. I started using case lube and that stopped.

Looked like neck sizing marks. I use Imperial sizing wax for all my bottle neck rifle sizing, even when I am using my Wilson hand dies at the range, just neck sizing, great stuff.

You might just take a caliper and make sure your cases are still in spec length wise. A neck that looks ok after loading, but reaches too far into the throat can inhibit the bullet being released with disasterous results, so making sure the raw case is the right length, before charging and loading is a good idea. You can buy a simple hand trimmer from Lee that will cut them back pretty easily, not good for any volume, but for a handful of cases, they work pretty well.

[rm1911]

On another note, better take a look at the seating stem. I don't think it's a hollow mushroom point

[Bill Steele]

On another note, better take a look at the seating stem. I don't think it's a hollow mushroom point

Good catch, the meplat looks pretty mashed.

[fguffey]

Guffey, your post just sounds condescending and not really helpful.

Again, I do not do well with guessing games. Something is locking the bullet to the neck, after that someone is mindlessly pulling the handle and raising the ram. Again, I do not have a die that will make a case that ugly; I am the one that does not beat a path to the store to be the first to purchase every new tick die when it comes available.

I am also the one that does not recommend a new reloader jump into reloading in a dead run, I am the one that suggest the newest fad die is not the die a new reloader should start with. The guessing game "WHAT HAVE I DONE HERE?" has to do with a die that locked onto the case neck while seating a bullet. That problem goes back to before the beginning of the Internet. Before the Internet is was decided neck crimping was a bad habit and crimping while seating could reduce bullet hold. And I ask: Why crimp? The crimp is thought to be a method/technique for increasing bullet hold. And then one day someone on the Internet changed the concept of bullet hold to neck tension without a clue about how neck tension can be measured. I measure bullet hold in pounds, I have tension gages, none of my tension gages are calibrated in tensions.

I do not suggest you jump into reloading in a dead run, I suggest you avoid other reloaders that believe you should have the fancy, whistle and bell latest die made by their own personal die maker. I suggest you learn to reload first with A, B and C fundamentals.

F. Guffey

[fguffey]

It is impossible to use a neck sizing die to destroy a case by forming a radius on the shoulder. UNLESS! you are using a neck sizing die that is too short and or designed for another case. And then there is that part where you claim you are using lube to seat the bullet. Lube is required for sizing, it is impossible to ignore the bullet protruding from the neck of the case meaning what ever happened to the case happened when the bullet was seated.

When seating a bullet the die does not offer case body support therefore case lube is not required. Again, the neck sizing die is designed to neck size a case without the die touching the shoulder/neck juncture meaning it is impossible to squat a case with a neck sizing die.

One more time, the neck of the die locked onto the bullet while the bullet was being seated. One more time again, I do not do well with guessing games and I know it is not possible to crush a case with a neck sizing die because the die is made for minimum length cases meaning for the die to contact the shoulder the shoulder of the case would have to be at least go-gage length from the shoulder to the case head. Then; again, who measures?

F. Guffey