OCW method , my first honest try . Come take a look and help .

[Metal God]

I used an inferred thermometer to check barrel temp before each shot or string to insure consistency through out the test .

[Metal God]

Here's all four targets in order top left to bottom right COAL , 2.815 , 2.825 , 2.835 , 2.845 . The bottom right target has a significant POI shift from the others . How ever I'm not 100% sure that's not do to a scope adjustment . I also ran a ladder test the same day that needed a slight scope adjustment to the right . That could explain the shift but I don't remember if that's the case for sure .

[eric n]

Without being there and seeing the wind this is just a guess...
42.4 @ 2.845 would be the spot, if not, you need to push higher. If that doesn't work, try a different powder. This is assuming you are confident in your hold.
You need to be fighting wind, not vertical. You should be striving for an inch of vert at 300 for 5 with a cool or warm barrel. The double grouping in your last target along with vert indicates you should push it faster if you aren't getting pressure. I know you believe otherwise, but it is likely caused by changing your hold.

[Metal God]

You should be striving for an inch of vert at 300 for 5 with a cool or warm barrel. The double grouping in your last target along with vert indicates you should push it faster if you aren't getting pressure. I know you believe otherwise, but it is likely caused by changing your hold.
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No , I know/understand most of my issues are me . With a good load I can shoot sub moa all day . I often wonder if I REALLY tried and focused on EVERY aspect of my shooting , how well could I really shoot . My problem is that I get impatient and just want to shoot . Now I have more patients then many guys but not as much as a need to be a very good shooter .

That's all on me though and in my defense I only started shooting for real accuracy in 2013 . Before that if I could hit a soda can at 100yds I was happy . Now If I don't put a bullet through the opening at the top I'm not happy . I used to practice a lot with my 22 that I set up like my 308 . I've not shot the 22 in over a year and barely have been shooting any rifles in that same time .

Early last year I started loading 9mm and 45 and most of my time and effort has been spent on that . For the most part I just started shooting rifle again when I started these tests . I really do need to re-dedicate my self to shooting for accuracy again .

I have this thread going on another forum as well . I've got more then a few suggestions to try a load in the 42.0gr through 42.5gr . So I'll try that this week along with the 43gr load but this time with a COAL of 2.855 or just kissing the lands . I'm not sure what other loads and seating depths I'll try so a few suggestions could help . I also ran a ladder test that same day with a few different components then the ones I used in this test . I changed the brass and the primers . That test showed me over pressure at 43gr with sticky bolt and extractor, ejector marks on the brass . 41gr seemed like a good place to start so I'll load a few up with those components as well and see what I get .

[eric n]

Right on.
Developing loads is fun but so many variables are involved that sometimes it takes multiple tests at distance to see the clear winner.
I focus and try every shot. Truthfully? If I make a perfect shot 3 out of 10 I'm happy(prone) and I try and put 5k down range a year. It's pretty darn tough to hold consistently and my hats off to those that can. After 300 yds, there isn't a prone shooter who is moa all day long but the journey of trying sure is fun!
Good luck

[Metal God]

UPDATE

well I finally got back out to do my final testing of the Dan Neberry OCW method . If you have followed this thread you know I was trying to keep my test as true as I could to the original method .

I have this thread going on a couple different forums so I'm not completely sure who has said what where so I'll just post my conclusions here as I see them .

First as I stated when I started this thread . I did not have much faith in this method . Upon running these test I have concluded that I was indeed WRONG . this method (to this point) has been one of the best ways to find a load I've used . I'll admit I have some final confirming but believe my test have shown that The OCW test per Dan's instructions worked quite well .

summary

Savage 308 model 10
168gr Hornady BTHP
IMR-4895
LC-12-LR cases , sized .002 short of fired cases using bushing die "NO" expander
Fed match primers

First test was the 3 shot groups in charge weight increments of .4gr to find a common set of charges that had the least amount of vertical stringing from the triangulated center of each 3 shot group .

First targets shot at 200yds


It's been documented in earlier post what the triangular centers were and why I chose 43gr as my OCW . I got other suggestios as to what charge to use and there were a couple . I only really considered one and that was 42gr . More on the 42gr charge later

After deciding on 43gr as my OCW I went ahead and loaded 4 different 5 shot lots of 43gr with different seating depths .

43gr seating depth test at 300 yards


As you can see as the seating depth changed ( seated longer each test ) the groups got consistently smaller . At that point I was starting to be encouraged about this method .

So it took awhile but I finally got out to confirm the seating depth choices were in fact valid . Long story short . I'll either be going with 43gr at 2.845 or 2.855 . They both shot equally well but the 2.855 did not have as good a ES/SD

3rd test at 300yards 43gr at 2.855 COAL


That's very close to 1/2 moa out to 300yds which would likely be one little tiny hole at 100yds . So IMHO this method works quite well . I shot two 5 shot groups at that seating depth and they both shot the same . The only issue was my velocities . Through out the day regardless as to the charge the 2.855 COAL shot the best but also had the worst ES/SD .

As I said above I also shot 2 groups of the 42gr charge . Although it did OK right at 1 moa at 300yds . It did not do as well as the 43gr charge .

Also , I'm not sure if I mentioned it here but I also was running a ladder test using some of the same components .

Ladder test

168gr Hornady BTHP
IMR-4895
LC-14 cases , sized to GO-GAGE length using bushing die "WITH" expander
Win standard LR primers .

I had already run the first part of the ladder test firing one shot of each charge moving up in increments of .4gr the last time I was out .42.2gr was the highest I could go with these components with out pressure signs . I came up with 40.6gr , 41.0gr , 41.4gr as having the least amount of vertical stringing at 300 yards . I chose 41gr as the charge I'd try . I then tried 41gr at multiple seating depths at 300 yards

Ladder test seating depth target


As you can see once again as the seating depth grew the groups shrank-ish . I how ever agian had VERY bad ES/SD at the seating depth of 2.855 even though it's a very good group of .6 moa at 300 yards

My conclusion is at this point is that both the OCW and Ladder test methods work good . I am how ever slightly confused as to why my COAL of 2.855 continued to show erratic velocities regardless as to which method or charge I used while still grouping the best .

Any thoughts ?

[eric n]

What's the wind doing during your testing? Are you confident in your wind reading?
Was the bad ES at 2.855 due to one outlier?
What rear bag are you using and is your vertical more consistent with other loads?
Are you using a magnetospeed?

Take your load out farther and do a 10 shot group... it will tell you everything.
Have you adjusted the parallax out?

[Metal God]

What's the wind doing during your testing? Are you confident in your wind reading?

I run these test as early in the mornings with as little wind as possible . Yesterday during these specific test . The worst it got was 5mph coming from 10;30 to 11 o-clock into my face so virtually no effect really .

Was the bad ES at 2.855 due to one outlier?

No not that I noticed .I'm not sure if I said but the 2.855 COAL is just touching the lands . At first I thought it was outliers but after realizing that it only happened with the 2.855 groups regardless of powder charge or components . It happened with the 42gr and 43gr charges in the OCW test and the 41gr ladder test . The ladder test used different primers and cases so on the whole it would seem there were a lot a variables that could cause such a thing and yet it only happened when my bullet has just barely touching the lands .

Right now my thinking is that the ogive was not truly consistent off or on the lands . Likely a cartridge or two were touching and the others were just off . As apposed to all the other loads that were for sure off the lands .

What rear bag are you using and is your vertical more consistent with other loads?

Just your standard cheap local gun store bags . These are the black and tan ones , not sure the brand .

Are you using a magnetospeed?

No , It's a Chony green color with wired remote . It's funny you ask I was talking with a guy there that had the Magno chrono . I personally would not want something like that clamped on to the end of my barrel effecting my harmonics when testing groups .

Take your load out farther and do a 10 shot group... it will tell you everything.

That in fact is my next and final test to confirm the load .

[Metal God]

I'm going on Monday to test the charge weight swing claims of the OCW method . I went a head and loaded up 20 rounds but instead of weighing each charge I just threw them from my Hornady powder measure . While setting up for the throw I was seeing .6gr swing in charges . The target weight was 43gr and I was getting 42.7 through 43.3 . This should be interesting . I also changed one thing on the load .

Right now my thinking is that the ogive was not truly consistent off or on the lands . Likely a cartridge or two were touching and the others were just off . As apposed to all the other loads that were for sure off the lands .

I was getting those inconsistent velocities at 2.855 so I went ahead and seated these to 2.850 . I was getting good groups with 2.845 but better with 2.855 , thought I'd split the difference and see if I could stabilize the velocities .