Rounds per hour?

[tanks]

i happen to have a Dillon 650 and I want to use it for 308, I am trying to figure if its worth spending the money on the caliber conversion, etc. from Dillon or stay with single stage and a RCSB Chargemaster for the 308. I loaded a bunch of 308 on the single stage last weekend, trickling each and every charge and it was SLOW, I kept looking at my 650 and thinking, I should be using it. So Dillon caliber conversion or Chargemaster ?...

Both. My Dillon 550B just arrived couple of hours ago with 5 extra toolheads for the rifle cartridges and a couple of conversion kits. I intend to set up the dies on the toolheads but use the Dillon as if it is a single stage. Resize on the Dillon, , case prep and prime then use the Chargemaster to measure powder and then use the Dillon to seat the bullet and crimp. The advantage for that setup (as I have witnessed from friends that do it the same way) is that I do not have to re-adjust the dies every time I load for a particular caliber. Chargemaster has a memory as well so I just pick whichever load I happen to be working at the moment,

[rm1911]

I'm not a Dillon fanboy or anything, but if you load on a Dillon you'll get about 7-800 rounds per hour, all perfectly uniform. Load on anything else and you'll get about 50-75 per hour, half won't even load in your gun, the other half will blow it up.

Don't worry about loading speed. Go steady and smooth, don't rush. That's where problems stop by to say hi. Get into a rhythm and you'll be amazed how fast it does go. I have a Dillon SDB. I know what the official per hour is and I don't approach it. But I can do plenty fast enough and know that in 25 years, dozens of 1000's of rounds I've never had a problem.

Once adjusted just enjoy a round going plunk after each pull. Whether it's 3 per minute or 6 or 10, no big deal.

[5akman]

I can run through my entire case collator and bullet feed tubes (about a 100 of each) in 10 minutes with my Loadmaster and pre-primed cases.

[splithoof]

Been loading for a number of calibers since 1980; started with an RCBS Rockchucker (still use it), then went on to a Dillon SD, then upgraded that to a SDB, then to an RL-350, to RL-450, then to a XL-650, and now I use a 1050 as well. After using those machines, and having helped a number of other reloaders set up machines from other makers, including older Hollywood & Star loaders, I can say with confidence that case preparation is the first absolutely critical factor, followed by using quality components that are properly matched. Next could be properly adjusted and maintained equipment, followed by not trying to rush production rates.

The production rate figures commonly seen in advertisements for various brands of equipment are for most folks not realistic. They are figures that rely on any and all aspects of production going perfectly, with not the slightest hiccup or minor error, component wise, equipment wise, or operator wise. That is not to say that it can't be done; however it takes some practice and knowledge to do it.

Setting up progressive equipment takes some time, but so do the necessary steps to produce high quality match loads. Excellent ammunition can be produced on a progressive machine, you however need to know what your are doing.
Also know that at some point you will make mistakes, components can be defective, and equipment requires readjustment. This WILL lead to some rounds being wasted, but that is how it goes.

As far as loading .308/7.62mm on a 650, I load a lot of that on my 650, but mainly use those loads for semi automatic weapons, and create excellent precision match loads on the old single stage. Also note that progressive machines tend to run smoother when using ball powders, and for rifle cartridges, boat-tail bullets.

I think that unless you are going to do a lot of shooting, a single stage setup is a better way to learn the smaller details, and then if you like it, a progressive upgrade after some time. You will find that most folks who use progressive machines will occasionally continue to use single stage equipment as well.

[CGZ]

I use a lee load master to size/deprime my cases then I do brass prep on them. For pistol rounds I'll finish them on the loadmaster along with a hornady bullet feeder die with the tube extension and can get near 800 cases an hour (for the expaning/seating etc. part) . Rifle rounds I take more care and load them on my lee turret press.

The loadmaster is not bad when it's working properly but can be a pain in the butt to get in alignment sometimes. It's nice though because it has the built in case feeder and you don't need to put the primers in a tube. It's not the most reliable (in my experience) but for what it costs it's worth the extra hassle.

Was contemplating getting the Dillon RT1500 electric case trimmer. I turn 5.56 into 300 Blk every so often and this would also speed up my case trimming for 5.56 too. It's just a fairly large investment though.

[dreyna14]

When I used my Lee Classic turret I have done up to 200 per hour just chugging along on autopilot when doing 9mm or .45. Once I got my Hornady progressive that number was essentially effortless. I use a single stage for precision ammo and can do 60-80 per hour once the brass is prepped depending on how precise I want to be. All in all, even with the turret, I could load faster than I could shoot them. With the progressive I can go from all out to full ammo cans over a weekend easily.

[pontoon]

Here's the equipment list I'm looking at so far. Expensive! But it's all chosen for the goal of making precision ammo. https://amzn.com/w/1Y0Y6Y4O3JAQG

[gixxnrocket]

my $.02
IMO hop on amazon put a few things in your cart:
Lyman Book: B001MYEU0E <read the 1st half 2x and make sure this is for you.
Lee press B008F5H636
RCBS shell holder: B000NTMJK2
Wilson debur: B00Q5N2RY8
Frankford puller: B001B7ZB4Q
Auto Prime: B000N8LCDS
Lee funnel: B000NOUEUO
Hornady auto charge: B003O20UOW
Lee universal decap die: B002SF2ZXU
FA Calipers: B000KKB1XU
Dillon case lube: B00AQJODDA <-- I usually get from BrianEnos' site
And I'm not sure what 270 you have but just a lee 3 die set will do for now.

I'd suggest buying starline brass initially or borrowing a trimmer or there's the option of buying some pre-trimmed/primed brass.

This setup will carry you for years and is not the most expensive stuff to start out with. I do recommend the electronic powder throw initally over a separate scale, powder throw, bracket, trickler,etc because the cost will come out to about the same if not just a touch more. And it will be one less headache and chance too mess a charge just starting out. Again, minus the dies and trimmer, I hope I'm not forgetting anything else basic.

When you think about trimmers later, this is a piece that I'd recommend spending decent money on if you're looking for precision. if not there are faster cheaper options.

Just my recommendations to get started (new equip). Even if you grab a progressive later you'll always have a need for this single stage. Also keep an eye out for used stuff.

[pontoon]

Thanks gixxnrocket, I added some of those items to my list. I have some more expensive items in there still because I think they'll help speed things up or make me do a better job. Please feel free to correct the list if there is an item that does not do a good job.

[Fordtrucks]

I think u should read this. Randall has a great list already created. It's a sticky at the top of the forum.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=158086

[pontoon]

Which dies do I need? And if it has a micrometer built in, do I need standalone micrometers?

http://www.midwayusa.com/s?targetLocation=%2F_%2FN-4294967255%2B8168%3FNp%3D2%26Nr%3DAND%2528p_visible%253A1%252Ccustomertypeid%253A1%2529%26Nrpp%3D24%26Ns%3Dp_metric_sales_velocity%257C1%26Ntpc%3D1%26Ntpr%3D1

[gixxnrocket]

What other items are you looking at? Just out of curiosity? Also the sticky just above is a nice perspective as well.

Don't be afraid of used stuff or mixing and matching colors. There's no perfect company out there. (Dillon is close though.... j/k.... kinda).

You might want to think about how OCD you are and to what degree of bright and clean you expect your brass to be when you start to process. I wet tumble, it cost more initially, yields extremely clean brass, but more importantly I worry about lead (merc./etc) exposure with young kids in the house. If that's not a concern vibrators are good and quick. Or just soap water and trash can. However, clean brass is better on your dies.

[pontoon]

Gixxrocket did you see this link? https://amzn.com/w/1Y0Y6Y4O3JAQG

That link is my list of stuff. If it doesn't work maybe I set the viewing permissions wrong.

[stranded1980]

I reviewed your list. If you're really open to suggestions than here is mine:

Instead of the Lee 3 die set, I'd spend the extra $9 and get the Lee 4 die set, so that you have their factory crimp die too (which I personally like, but not everyone does). http://www.amazon.com/Lee-Precision-...sion+270+4+die

You have 2 different reloading blocks listed, the Frankford Arsenal and the RCBS Universal. I have the RCBS and really like it. I would only get one for now, because you'll inevitably end up with more over time. You find them used for a $1 or $2 here or there.

You can get 6" digital calipers from Harbor Freight for $15, and they should measure just as well, thus saving you $25.

I would also scrap the Lyman case prep from your list, since you're doing wet tumbling and that will clean the primer pocket and inside of the necks already for you. Also, 270 typically isn't crimped since it's not a military round. You can get by with a handheld tool for your deburring: http://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7810199-...yman+deburring

You have imperial sizing wax in your list, as well as the RCBS case lube and a RCBS lube pad. I would just get one or the other for starting out.

If you're going to get the Wilson trimmer, you also need the case holder for the brass: http://www.amazon.com/L-E-Wilson-CH-...06+case+holder

You have the Redding bushing in your list, but not the actual die that holds it. Either way, I would hold off on buying those bushings and the die until you've seen what your limitations are with the Lee die set; some people swear by the Lee Collet Die for precision, you may too.

For a press, your original post says your goal is better ammo as opposed to cost savings. In that case, the Forster Co-Ax you have listed is perfect. If you decide that production rates are just as important, I'd recommend a Dillon 550B. It'll allow you to eventually mass produce pistol ammo as well.

One item not on your list that I'd recommend is a bench rest seater die. Redding and Forster both make them, but I personally like the Forster non-micrometer version, since it's so much cheaper and I don't constantly adjust for different style bullets. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/191...270-winchester

Since you're in an apartment, and your space is limited, you can set all of this up on top of a rolling tool chest, which you can hide in a closet. There's a sticky in the reloading forum called "Reloading Bench Pictures" with tons of pictures to give you ideas. It's worth the time to wade through it.

Either way, best of luck!

[gixxnrocket]

The Wilson / Sinclair trimmer is probably the best I've used(still use) but you will need a case holder that is sold separately.

Little things like a case gauge, dial calipers (lots of people like the digital but honestly after you use a dial for a while it's quick to read and no batteries needed) Dillon super swage is nice but the rcbs works well and is cheap if you have crimped brass.

If you're looking for precision right out of the gate ($$) the redding comp bullet seater dies are very handy. And if you're going that precise you may as well hornady overall length gauge and comparator to match ogive to your chamber.

A decent chrony will help you develop and test your loads

I think that you'll also find that the more precise you want your ammo to be the more it will cost in tool and time. Start out as basic as possible at least for a few sessions. Each piece of equipment has its own quirks to discover and overcome. Decide on an initial goal of matching exact recipes and working up a load to match your rifle. That will take minimal equipment and still produce very accurate results compared to factory ammo. If you decide that you need match ammo for your bench rest competitions or long range then re-evaluate. I admit it's easy to get caught up in buying stuff initally. But like any machinist, that equipment needs to have a valid purpose that yeilds tangable results otherwise is it worth the time and money?