Updated wet process R&D...

[stilly]

Well so much for the shorty pins... God they sucked balls.

Citric Acid Users:

So check it out. Do you need to decap before dropping your shells into the water for wet processing?

NO. BUT, if you do NOT decap, then be prepared for darker shells, MUCH darker shells, irradescently darker shells as a matter of fact and you MUST use a heater/ dryer to dry them.

In my case I used the harbor freight dryer and it did an EXCELLENT job. Even the primers seem to have been dried out after only a few hours.

BUT, the amount of water and cleaners that you will need will increase a LOT.

There is a new nastiness in the water and since you are not tumbling in the proper volume of water with the proper amount of CA or dawn/lemishine then you are going to have multicolored shells at the end of the trip.

So far I have noticed this on 9mm since I am doing a huge push for some. My first shells were great, nice and golden, they were also decapped. But the next batch had shells that were not decapped yet and they came out almost brown, well, dark golden, but after drying I could see red and blue tones in them. Maybe they sat a bit longer or I did not get to them fast enough. So on the third batch, ALL were non decapped and they looked great at the rinsing but by the time they were dry, I could see differnet colors, like I did not rinse them enough. Which could very well be possible too. Perhaps I needed to rinse BOTH batches better than what I did but the pins that I was using were a different length then normal and they played hell trying to get everything out of the shells. Nasty little buggers. They even totally gang-banged a primer pocket.

So anyways, I have an idea though and I am gonna try something else. If it works, it will be totally cool...

[JMP]

NO. BUT, if you do NOT decap, then be prepared for darker shells, MUCH darker shells, irradescently darker shells as a matter of fact and you MUST use a heater/ dryer to dry them.

When you say decap, do you mean size and decap? If you do not size and decap and need to again size, you are really adding a lot more unnecesary work. I do not understand why folks would do this.

Anyhow, I agree that shorter pins would be better as they won't be as bad about getting one stuck or lost inside your case.

If you wet SS guys keep at it and get a reasonable process down, maybe, just maybe I'll get a wet tumbler just so I can get pins from my buddy stilly.

[sofbak]

^^^ Not sure what your expectations are for "a reasonable process" , but the wet SS practitioners here seem to have it pretty much "down" already....

As for extra work I don't understand the comment. Most of us decap with a universal die prior to cleaning anway so I don't see any extra effort.

Enlighten me please.

[Fordtrucks]

I'm sure he means that he is not decaping before he tumble cleans his brass, hence the extra step. And no I don't decap before dry tumbling my brass either, no advantage thier. I do decap when I wet tumble cause I get cleaner primer pockets, but not dry tumbling.

Have u been enlightened?

[Michael in California]

What's hard about the process? Deprime/size dirty, wet tumble once, air dry in the sunny desert, load pretty shells into cartridges.

On a good day with tail wind, I can be done with the whole process before your brass is out of the kitty litter. (or at least close).

['ol shooter]

I always decap before I run the tumbler with "Stilly" brand pins. I don't size dirty brass.

[stilly]

high praise high praise I thank thee...

Decapping IS redundant work for wet process. Granted with a universal decapper from Lee it goes kinda of quickly, but it is still decapping and NOT resizing. Maybe some people will decap/resize and maybe I should do that too.

I can decap about 3 times or more faster and in various places when I decap with the universal decapper though. I have not tried the 9mm decapper/resizer on the hand press yet.

I was trying a new shorty type of pin and they were so light that they were lined up ready to jump out when I pulled off the top. Then, they were jamming up the primer pockets 2 across side by side and ONE was jammed across a primer pocket with about 8 others circled around it.

Separating them is a tad longer too and since I did so many it was a PITA.

I tried this sample due to what info I got, figures I should not have taken sloppy seconds from someone who was not as meticulous as me when it comes to pins and finding the right size... He was only thinking of ONE thing, but noe he will have other things to worry about.

I am waiting to hear back on what size I can try out in a small quantity.

I am starting to think that it might very well be that there will be three types of pins for three types of shells or maybe 5 types of pins, but who really wants to keep 5 types on hand?

So back into the lab I go. Tonight I started messing with the Loadmaster. I have it all setup except for the indexing part. I gotta fix that.

[bubbala]

i get varying results from my tumbler, and i can't figure out if it's the ratio of pins to brass or soap or time or citric acid or what. it's become alchemy with no repeatable results sorry, if i go to the trouble of tumbling i want shiny brass. just makes me feel good.

[Michael in California]

Well, tell us what you do? What do you mean by varying? Brass color, cleanliness?

What I have found is excessive Lemishine or poor rinsing leads to discoloration. Excessive soap does nothing. Lack of soap results in still dirty brass. One must have soap bubbles left at the end or you have too little soap. I use 1 TBPS Palmolive and a /380 case of lemishine for about 300 9mm cases in a small tumbler.

[BigJ]

Well, tell us what you do? What do you mean by varying? Brass color, cleanliness?

What I have found is excessive Lemishine or poor rinsing leads to discoloration. Excessive soap does nothing. Lack of soap results in still dirty brass. One must have soap bubbles left at the end or you have too little soap. I use 1 TBPS Palmolive and a /380 case of lemishine for about 300 9mm cases in a small tumbler.

I have to agree. I've run lots of various combos and if I get the ratio of soap to lemishine to water to brass right, there's no difference in finished color between decapped and non decapped brass.

As for drying: two hours in a food dehydrator is more than enough to dry even 3006 cases with their large rifle primers still in. I use this one. http://goo.gl/r23F91 and it holds 2x the brass my Rebel 17 tumbler can. FWIW.

[8mmFMJ]

-Dawn/water/rock tumbler
-decap/resize/trim/chamfer
-Dawn/water/rock tumbler
-Cardboard box/sun
-Prime/Powder/Projectile

Shoot, rinse, repeat. Anything else I have found to be an extra step and waste of money.

[BajaJames83]

Have haven been doing this in bulk for a while now and have actually removed the pins from the process with very little noticeable difference. My process is as follows.

This all goes into the polymer drum concrete mixer from lowes
-2 gal of sorted brass
-5 gal of water
-2 tbsp of dawn
-1 tbsp of citric acid (or lemishine)
( will normally add water soap and acid first and let drum mix then add nrass )
- run for an hour
-drain
-rinse
-refill
-run with clean water for about 10-15 mins
-rinse
-dump on towel and swing like bowling ball
-put on black sheet on patio in the sun for a few hours and I'm good.

The only issue I had with pins vs without pins is the inside of the casedsea not as clean but still cleaner than when tumbled in vibratory media tumbler. Toe is acceptable because I don't have to deal with the pins any more.

I also don't decap before I tumble which is why I have to do the bowling ball towel method but they come out nice and clean and I normally load them withing a few days

[JMP]

high praise high praise I thank thee...

Decapping IS redundant work for wet process. Granted with a universal decapper from Lee it goes kinda of quickly, but it is still decapping and NOT resizing. Maybe some people will decap/resize and maybe I should do that too.

I can decap about 3 times or more faster and in various places when I decap with the universal decapper though. I have not tried the 9mm decapper/resizer on the hand press yet.

I was trying a new shorty type of pin and they were so light that they were lined up ready to jump out when I pulled off the top. Then, they were jamming up the primer pockets 2 across side by side and ONE was jammed across a primer pocket with about 8 others circled around it.

Separating them is a tad longer too and since I did so many it was a PITA.

I tried this sample due to what info I got, figures I should not have taken sloppy seconds from someone who was not as meticulous as me when it comes to pins and finding the right size... He was only thinking of ONE thing, but noe he will have other things to worry about.

I am waiting to hear back on what size I can try out in a small quantity.

I am starting to think that it might very well be that there will be three types of pins for three types of shells or maybe 5 types of pins, but who really wants to keep 5 types on hand?

So back into the lab I go. Tonight I started messing with the Loadmaster. I have it all setup except for the indexing part. I gotta fix that.

Stilly, didn't you get the Dillon sizing die for 9mm, or was that for 45 ACP? The Dillon sizing pistol die is good for size + decap; otherwise, you sort of defeat the purpose of that spring loaded decapping pin with the little clip on top.

And, yes, Ford got it right; that's the process. Actually for bolt rifle, usually, l like to neck only + decap, then no lube or tumbling is even needed. It seems that people have preferences based on the type of shooting they do. It seems that the AR folks may prefer wet since those rifles foul the heck out of the brass.

Stilly, I have a Lee UD somewhere. I can understand how old habits are hard to break. I suppose there's no harm in using it if it works for you. I just found that it wasn't universal as it doesn't work on large rifles. Then, you can always use a large rifle die to universally decap anything smaller so long as it doesn't have a BMG type decapper.

[reckoner]

So check it out. Do you need to decap before dropping your shells into the water for wet processing?

NO. BUT, if you do NOT decap, then be prepared for darker shells, MUCH darker shells, irradescently darker shells as a matter of fact and you MUST use a heater/ dryer to dry them.

I just wet tumbled 4500 cases of 9mm (three loads in the Frankford Arsenal tumber) without decapping them first, and they're every bit as shiny as when I clean decapped brass.

After rinsing, I soak my brass in hot water and Lemishine for 10 minutes, towel dry them, and then throw them in the food dehydrator for an hour. They stay shiny pretty much indefinitely. I do 10 lbs of cases in a 3 gallon bucket 1/2 filled with water with 5mL of Lemishine.

[J-cat]

What's wrong with the kit you get from stainlesstumblingmedia.com?

You get pins, a media separator, tumbler, Lemishine, instructions? You are making this more difficult than it needs to be. I've been using this kit for several years without any problems. I get pins stuck in the flash home once in a blue moon. The media separator gets all the pins out of the cases in under 30 seconds. I dry the brass on the carpet. I tumble for four hours or overnight or over the weekend it don't matter.

Honestly, it's not that difficult.