Federal Champion 45acp..problems

[opos]

I picked up several boxes of Federal Champion 45acp fmj ammo to "break in" my new CZ97B. Got a surprise when I realized it's small pistol primer brass so going to have to keep it all separated from my other brass...then I set about shooting some of it and it's keyholing like crazy and my groups look like shotgun patterns....The CZ shot some American Eagle (again, Federal) just fine the last time and no keyholing at all and reasonable accuracy for off hand/new pistol and cheap ammo.

Has anyone else had any issues with Federal Champion (I think Walmart sells this along with some other stuff...I bought mine from SG ammo in Oklahoma some time back.

[stilly]

Federal Champion is shotgun shells that I buy. You sure you loaded .45 acp and not shot shells?




Perhaps you should check out your barrel. Maybe you have a slightly sized up barrel or maybe the ammo was indeed a bit undersized to fit into more guns...

Some of the .45 acp that I have loaded I noticed will keyhole from time to time. Kinda sucks too because I do not like keyholing but I bet it hurts like a mofo if I shoot someone with a keyholing bullet vs a straight through shot.

[Killer Bee]

I bought a few thousand rounds of the fed champion 230gr ball from various walmarts several years ago..

never had any issues from my sa pro and usp expert.. not sure if I've fired any of it from my other .45's..

if other standard load ball ammo is functioning properly in the same gun, I would focus on the ammo..

call federal with the lot numbers to see if they've had other complaints or even a recall maybe..

if you have the tools, mic them vs the other loads that fire properly.. access to a chrono? how do the rounds feel? any cycling issues?

good luck

[dsltech]

I dont have a .45apc so this is mostly just curiosity. I assume the Federal ammo using small primers shoots fine. Theoretically cant you just use your normal powder and load it up with small primers also?

[baih777]

I think he is more concerned about the keyholing and big pattern. Try some different ammo in the new pistol. If another brand of ammo does the same, then its your new pistol.
If you shoot that ammo in another pistol, and it shoots bad then its most likely the ammo.
Either way you need access to another pistol for testing.

[opos]

As I'd said..the American Eagle I'd fired a while back was fine...no keyholing and plenty accurate for cheap factory fodder...no FTF or jams or mis feeds with either...As to the small primer vs large primer...it's just an inconvenience..makes for sorting as while the powder is probably interchangeable the primers are not.

Pretty sure from looking at the targets and some mental notes there were no issues at all before...same pistol..same indoor setting..same distance, etc...

I got some handloads that I'd loaded up for an old CZ 97 I had....it was dandy accurate and I know the load from a number of years of shooting it in other pistols...I'll run that and see what happens...also figure to contact Federal and see if they have anything going on...not too long ago I do recall Federal recalled some .45 Champion for sizing problems....only a couple of lots but it was a problem....maybe they got something going on.

As to the comment about shotgun shells vs 45's I'll just let that pass.

[Bumslie]

I haven't shot that stuff in years, but It was satisfactory out of my colt officer.
Im curious to see what is causing this

[kouye]

All of the FC 230gr ball I bought from Walmart have large primers and I've never had any keyholing with it out to 15 yards. I bought several thousand rounds of it a couple of years ago.

[opos]

All of the FC 230gr ball I bought from Walmart have large primers and I've never had any keyholing with it out to 15 yards. I bought several thousand rounds of it a couple of years ago.

I had heard about the small pistol primer situation from a guy I know a while back...seems it's sort of hit and miss along several manufacturers..the "quality" Federal for example still has the large primers while the "plinking ammo" can have either...I think I may have some old Federal in the stash...I'll look there...it would be American Eagle (the current stuff I have is small primers) and see if it's large. This is a fairly recent thing as I understand...I know a bunch of the competitive shooters save up the small and when they get to a "leave the brass" shoot they pull out what they have of the small stuff and it stays on the floor...This was the first I had with it and it was a surprise on the Champion.

The keyholing really threw me for a loop..don't know how many of you deal with CZ 97's but they are quite a pistol and I have owned several...every one has been about as consistant and quality as I'd ever want..and the fact it shot fine before with American Eagle says I think it's the ammo..I was shooting about 12-15 yards...the e mail went to Federal this afternoon and I'll see what they have to say...if anything comes back I'll pass it along..also when the weekend is over so the range is cleaned out of folks I'll do some more shooting with the "home brew"' I really know and trust and pass that along.

[Killer Bee]

loading up for the range tonight and I found a couple of hundred rounds of that old champion..

I know very little about reloading but compared to some rem in the same can, appears to be smaller primers..

I'm having a vintage revolver night but I'll shoot a few of these feds through my edc xds and let ya'll know how it goes

[opos]

I may have come across a possible answer to the "keyholing"...Where I shoot they have a very strong air exchange system...I noticed when I unloaded and went to hang my target on the cardboard backer it was really "blowing around"...didn't give it much thought...however....in addition to some movement of the backer on the "trolly" my target was one that I'd had folded up in my range bag and I got a feeling when I taped it up..it was pretty loose and had fold lines on the backer.

I got to looking at the target and the "keyholing" is in the area of a horizontal crease in the target..I am thinking that the mis shapen holes are from the paper being loose and moving around from the "wind" and also from the bullet hitting a target that had a crease and kept the bullet from hitting square.

That would explain why same gun and same basic ammo might have the issue. The area where the problem exists is a specific location..the "fliers' were not involved and the balance of the target does not show it...I think the poor groups may also be a result of the target frame movement and my "attempt" to overcorrect.

I've noticed that the particular section of the range where I was shooting today always seems to have more air movement and the only handgun shooting I've done there (in that part of the facility) has been close up and on new targets (normally use the "stick on" targets that show hits...Today was a large sillouette target that had been folded several times (went "cheap")..so Monday or Tuesday I'll go do some detective work...some "known home brew ammo"...ask for a lane at one end or the other of the range...targets flattened onto the backers, etc...

I found a pretty good picture of Federal .45's with both large and smaller primers...it was part of an article that discussed the cheaper plinkers using spp and the "quality" ammo using lpp. The article again said the only "issue" was having to sort cases...especially for folks with automatic loaders, etc.

I never played golf but in the 50+ years I've been shooting and loading these kinds of "off days" drive me nuts.

[maxx03]

Opos, it's clearly evident you got a lemon. I'll help you out and take it off your hands at a discounted price. . I kid, I kid.

[opos]

Opos, it's clearly evident you got a lemon. I'll help you out and take it off your hands at a discounted price. . I kid, I kid.

Oh Noooo!! I had a nice 97 about 5 years ago...loved it...shot it till I almost wore it out..traded it off and couldn't find another one...finally got one..had it for a year and had some health issues so sold a bunch of guns...finally found this one....new...one of 3 the dealer had coming in....it's home to stay . Quite a pistol..just need a smarter "operator".