Thinking

[Tom-ADC]

Many good valid points above, I used a single stage for over 20 years before I moved to a progressive press was a easy move, perhaps I'm thinking how easy that was. I have loaded 10's of thousands of round in many calibers on that old Rock chucker JR. Gave it away few years back.

[Ironfether]

I can't resist chiming in on this topic.

I've been reloading for over 35 years. I started with a basic Lee Loader (the kind you hit with a hammer) in my Dad's Shed when I was 14. I still have that lee loader but it hasn't seen the light of day for a few decades.

I currently have or have had most of the presses mentioned above. My current stable includes two Dillon 550's (I hate changing primer sizes ), a Lee Classic Cast, Lee Turret, and several MEC Grabbers. I load for over 40 different calibers. I load 'blasting' ammo, big game hunting ammo, varmint ammo and long range precision ammo.

This is not a question of whether you can or cannot learn to load on a progressive press (of course you can). The OP asked what is the best choice for a beginning reloader. Remember he MAY or MAY NOT even like the hobby. The clear choice is to buy a quality single stage press. The inital cost is less and caliber changes are less. If the OP decides to continue with the hobby, the single stage press is not a wasted purchase because he will always need a good quality single stage press. Not trying to argue with the progressive crowd, but single loading on a progressive press is a Pain In the A** and swapping calibers is much more complicated.

A quality single stage press can be used for ANYTHING. The OP states that he is loading for a few rounds including some high usage rounds (9mm & .223) and some low usage rounds (.270). The single stage press will allow him to enter the reloading world softly and decide if this is for him. If he drinks the coolaide, he can supplement his stable with a good progressive. Whether it is green, red, blue, or black is a personal choice. They all have positives and negatives.

Just my two cents.

[stilly]

So we can now add "Newbie learning on a single stage vs. progressive" into the Calguns pantheon of heatedly argued/debated/hot buttons?

1. AR vs. AK
2. Glock vs. 1911
3. Commie vs. American guns
4. All bolt action rifles besides the Remington 700 are a waste of time?
5. Bullet button vs. Featureless

Which other ones am I missing?

...

hehe. Thanks for the kind words. I know I can be an asset but at times sometimes just the *** shows...

I think you might be able to add wet process vs dry process or methods therein and best ways to decap although the decapping thing might have been kinda pushed out by me with the discovery of how easy it was to post videos on you-tube and then talk **** in those videos and be unedited...

Meanwhile, Mr Harvey is sitting at his macbook pro watching the video wondering WTF he ever did to me...

:flickcig:

Ah well, **** em if they can't take a joke...


On a sidenote, I am glad that PC methods has been fairly civil. I mean, plated vs PC vs GC vs CAST vs J-word. I think they really all fit into various slots depending on what you are doing, but I see PC as a way to remove cast and plated (well, not remove cast, but now cast is not finished until it is PC... ) and even GC on all things traveling under 3100 FPS... Of course this is more for plinking since I imagine that most long distance shooters (precision etc.) would go nuts over PC boolits since they are prolly unbalanced via dry tumble and who knows what all else they would do in long distance shooting.

Nice wrap up.

[1859sharps]

So we can now add "Newbie learning on a single stage vs. progressive" into the Calguns pantheon of heatedly argued/debated/hot buttons?

1. AR vs. AK
AR of course

2. Glock vs. 1911
Yes

3. Commie vs. American guns
American...was there ever any question?

4. All bolt action rifles besides the Remington 700 are a waste of time?
DUH!

5. Bullet button vs. Featureless
RAW for the win :P

see above in bold for the definitive answers :P


ok, joking aside....

If you are an average or below average reloading student when it comes to concentration, safety mindedness, thoroughness, anal retentiveness and mechanical aptitude, you should begin with a single stage or turret press. It's exactly what I did

I must either be a absolute genius or this thought process is flawed. since I have never been called a genius I am thinking the "start with single stage" is a flawed argument. I am thinking it's one of those "truths" that has just never really been questioned or examined to figure out if there is any truth in it.

as someone who started out young, primarily self taught*, and with a 550B, I question if the "start with a single stage" press has the value often believed of this advice.

I honestly find the advice a bit on the insulting side, the assumption your too "stupid" or "careless" to use a progressive. I am sure I am not the only one.

A progress may not be the best fit for everyone's needs or budget, but I am not sure the primary deciding factor is experience level or assumed intelligence level. if someone is truly unable to stay focused, or smart enough or too careless to use a progressive, then reloading period isn't the activity for them.

*I do read the reloading manuals, I watched the 550B instruction video based on reloading for the 45ACP, and I did get a demo of how to use the 550b from a fellow experienced shooter.

[FJ40 CRUZR]

see above in bold for the definitive answers :P


ok, joking aside....



I must either be a absolute genius or this thought process is flawed. since I have never been called a genius I am thinking the "start with single stage" is a flawed argument. I am thinking it's one of those "truths" that has just never really been questioned or examined to figure out if there is any truth in it.

as someone who started out young, primarily self taught*, and with a 550B, I question if the "start with a single stage" press has the value often believed of this advice.

I honestly find the advice a bit on the insulting side, the assumption your too "stupid" or "careless" to use a progressive. I am sure I am not the only one.

A progress may not be the best fit for everyone's needs or budget, but I am not sure the primary deciding factor is experience level or assumed intelligence level. if someone is truly unable to stay focused, or smart enough or too careless to use a progressive, then reloading period isn't the activity for them.

*I do read the reloading manuals, I watched the 550B instruction video based on reloading for the 45ACP, and I did get a demo of how to use the 550b from a fellow experienced shooter.

True statement.

My thought is that if I am going to drop the coin for a press, why not just get the blue one right off? I mean if I spend 4-500$ on a single stage kit(with upgrades)why not just get the progressive one now (since you all say i will anyway) and take the time to learn it, fondle it, and so on. I can always get a single stage $100 press later, however; If i am going to spend $500 now and will want the blue machine later, why later instead of now?

I know there will be a big learning curve, i know what others here are saying. i am no spring chicken here and am very mechanically inclined and can build/repair most anything. I also am in no hurry to jump in, set it up and start cranking out 1000s of rounds in one day, i will take my time, read, understand what the process is and figure it out.

IF i decide that I either don't have the time or reloading isn't my thing, then I am sure I can find someone that has been doing it on a single stage that is ready for a blue machine. I'm pretty sure of that.

Interesting to hear everyone's thoughts on this though, I think a few got a little fired up about it too.

[stilly]

Yeah it is a funny thing.

Honestly though, I have it in my head that if you want the best made ammo for precision shooting you will not just go with a single stage, but with one of those Forster Co-AX single stage presses. And that is fine because precision shooters do not do mag dumps, well, they do, but it is like watching a turtle run. And on that same note (yes that was a joke) Accurate shooters do not shoot semi auto rifles for the most part unless they are in the Movies... And for the reasons above, that is why accurate shooting does NOT involve a turret or progressive.

I was looking at my turret two nights ago and I noticed that when the ram comes up to meet the shell holder, it is off by a little bit on one side and has exposed brass and so I adjusted the die by screwing it down a tad more. Many of my shells have a tiny gap where they did not get resized and although I have not found any issues and everything has shot fine for me, I have wondered how that could come into play with long range or different calibers/ cases/ firearms. I am sure that could be a problem. Would I have had that issue on a single stage? Nope. Cam-over and everything being centered fixes that.

Maybe I am wrong, but I DO admit, MY precision ammo is fired out of an Operator and it allows me to hit a 1" DOT at 25+ feet with one shot normally. I DID surprise myself that one day though and hit the 6" dinger at 125+ yards (maybe 137 yards or more, did not have a rangefinder) with the first shot out of the gun and it was a straight shot with a 160gr pill.

I am also very glad that when I came here, people steered me towards the Lee Classic Turret. I wanted to make AMMO. I did not want to craft a single round or separate by case or weight and all, I just wanted to see that I could make ammo because the 44 mag did not need to be precise. I am glad that I chose the turret, but I also had a single stage in a bucket about a year after that was going to resize all of my .223 brass also.

I like being cheap when it comes to purchasing things and I always look for a cheaper price elsewhere, but man, that turret though... It is certainly a workhorse. Perfect for the casual shooter that does not need to make 1k rounds in an hour. I am always looking for ways to make it faster too. So far it has all been about time motion studying though.

I DO like the notion of shooting 1k yards + but that would be a ***** for me to set my target up. When I get employed and get a few things, my next firearm might be a .338 of some sort. Not sure what, but I will only put ammo from a Forster Co-AX or something equivalent in it.

[LynnJr]

Rifle cases need to be lubed before resizing.
Rifle cases need to be trimmed after full length resizing.
Rifle cases need to be chamfered inside and outside after trimming.
Rifle cases need an accurate powder charge.
YES you can use a progressive press but why would you?

[Meety Peety]

I see the age old debate continues.

OP, one thing to always keep in mind when seeking advice is who the advice is coming from. Everyone has their own opinions on what is "quality ammo" (Or quality anything for that matter) and everyone has their own intended use, time constraints and quantities for reloading. There is certainly no right answer, because it ultimately boils down to what you, the reloader, want to get out of your ammo.

My personal choice.. If I am shooting, I'm shooting for groups. There is no need for a progressive press in that circumstance. If you are a "Minute of man" shooter, you would probably be fine with a progressive. As far as learning to reload, I personally would not want to learn on a progressive, but that does not mean it would be impossible. I also would hate to have ONLY a progressive press on my bench. What a PITA that would be. Whatever you pick, just be safe about it and know your limitations.

For whatever reason, it can be easy to get caught up in "what others think" when you are new to a hobby. For this reason, I would highly suggest you go to a reloading class or ask a fellow reloader to show you the ropes using their equipment. This will give you some actual experience with equipment to help you identify what you like and what you don't.

[Bigedski]

In my considered opinion you need both a single stage and a progressive, I have been using a single stage for over 30 years, I just recently bought a Dillion RL650 progressive because of the amount that I have been shooting lately but I still use one of my single stage presses to fine tune my extreme long range stuff.

[Capybara]

I honestly find the advice a bit on the insulting side, the assumption your too "stupid" or "careless" to use a progressive. I am sure I am not the only one.

I don't offer that advice based upon IQ or carelessness, I offer it based upon honest self appraisal of personal qualities. Not sure why you would find someone advising you to self evaluate your abilities insulting?

A progress may not be the best fit for everyone's needs or budget, but I am not sure the primary deciding factor is experience level or assumed intelligence level.

I'm not sure why you are correlating intelligence with the qualities I listed? I never said that word or even implied it. Lots of intelligent people are self-admittedly scatter brained and true geniuses tend to think, process and work non-linearly.

if someone is truly unable to stay focused, or smart enough or too careless to use a progressive, then reloading period isn't the activity for them.

I feel that statement throws the baby out with the bath water. I don't think successfully using a progressive press takes high IQ, it takes mechanical aptitude, patience and thoroughness. I have taught numerous students who began on a single stage press, based upon this advice and have later told me, "Thank goodness you recommended me starting out on a single stage press. It took me a while to get the hang of it, keeping track of all of the details, measurements, load recipes, components was difficult, but now I feel like I know what I am doing, I am going to buy a progressive press."

*I do read the reloading manuals, I watched the 550B instruction video based on reloading for the 45ACP, and I did get a demo of how to use the 550b from a fellow experienced shooter.

This puts you ahead of 90% of new reloading students, you have made my point for me. You are not average, you are exceptional in your thoroughness. We ask these questions of twelve - fifteen new reloading students every class and the majority have not done any of these things. For people who have the patience, are that detail oriented and self-aware like you, starting on a progressive is fine. But the majority are not like you.

We just bought two Hornady LNLs. We are going to offer classes with them eventually. But the prerequisite will be that you have either attended a reloading class on a single stage or already own and load on a single stage. That is the statistically relevant way to teach reloading on a progressive. We are pretty thorough about safety and the mechanics of what is happening in each stage of the process, that is difficult to teach when there are four or five operations happening at once with each pull of the handle. My viewpoint comes from our club instructing around one hundred students per year so I think our control group is an accurate cross section of new reloaders.

[LynnJr]

It is easier to load on a progressive press not harder. The only reason for a progressive press is to mass produce mediocre quality ammo.
Nobody on calguns is producing better quality ammo on a progressive press. If you think that go to any benchrest match and watch the best of the best and you will never see a progressive press. Those guys all put more rounds downrange every year than everyone on this thread.
A progressive press requires to many steps when loading rifle ammo to make sense for a new reloader.
You defeat the purpose of using a progressive press when you need to do all the steps individually because the cases need lubing resizing trimming chamferring then put back onto the progressive.
Capybarra posted a link to Sinclair International in another post. Sinclair is a premier reloading company and they don't have a progressive press in there 5 videos.

[jonzer77]

It is easier to load on a progressive press not harder. The only reason for a progressive press is to mass produce mediocre quality ammo.
Nobody on calguns is producing better quality ammo on a progressive press. If you think that go to any benchrest match and watch the best of the best and you will never see a progressive press. Those guys all put more rounds downrange every year than everyone on this thread.
A progressive press requires to many steps when loading rifle ammo to make sense for a new reloader.
You defeat the purpose of using a progressive press when you need to do all the steps individually because the cases need lubing resizing trimming chamferring then put back onto the progressive.
Capybarra posted a link to Sinclair International in another post. Sinclair is a premier reloading company and they don't have a progressive press in there 5 videos.

I don't think many people really care about what is the preferred method for people who shoot space guns from a bench with calibers suitable for squirrel hunting.


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[phdo]

This is not a question of whether you can or cannot learn to load on a progressive press (of course you can). The OP asked what is the best choice for a beginning reloader. Remember he MAY or MAY NOT even like the hobby. The clear choice is to buy a quality single stage press. The inital cost is less and caliber changes are less. If the OP decides to continue with the hobby, the single stage press is not a wasted purchase because he will always need a good quality single stage press.

Listen to this man's advice. I learned on a progressive. I knew I would not abandon reloading so I went with the "buy once, cry once" logic. I was loading for a lot of handgun calibers so the progressive made more sense. I fell in love with reloading so much that I bought a single stage a couple of months later for my rifle calibers.

Now, based on my experience, I would also suggest that you buy a single stage. If you decide to pursue the hobby, a single stage is a good companion and will compliment your progressive. You will most likely use the single stage for your rifle calibers anyways.

[LynnJr]

I don't think many people really care about what is the preferred method for people who shoot space guns from a bench with calibers suitable for squirrel hunting.


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You missed the entire point but not really a big concern.
What nonsquirrel calibers are you reloading on your progressive press and tell us about your group sizes.

[FJ40 CRUZR]

Ok, after much thought I decided to go single stage to start.

I have looked at the Lee and RCBS, however decided to get this one instead.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/265719/forster-co-ax-single-stage-press

I figure if I am going to do it, do it right.


Buy once, cry once.