non-conductive bullets

[MASTERLAB]

This is a bit of an odd question, but I am trying to prove a point to a friend, who quite frankly has big problems listening to reason. (Don't ask)

Long story short, I could use your help. Besides the 7.62x51 dag plastic training bullets, does anyone know of other bullets that have been made out of non conductive materials.

Or alternatively can you think of materials that are non conductive (or extremely low conductivity) that would make a good bullet.

[Frotz]

Why would the conductivity of a bullet be an issue?

[MASTERLAB]

You were warned, you asked. If others post, please be constructive and focus on the original question. I already know how idiotic the idea is and would prefer we focus on the non-conductive bullets rather than stating the obvious, that the idea is dumb.

Leaving out some of the boring details, my friend believes he can create a method of repelling bullets with electromagnetic forces and properties for the purpose of creating a bullet proof vest that would be more effective and practical than present bullet proof technology. (That includes power source, wire design, controller for electric currents with enough power to stop any bullet smaller than .50 bmg. Yea right)

Despite pointing out various flaws in his physics, math, and logic, pointing out other studies on what most people consider to be an extreme thought experiment, he still believes he can make it work practically.

One avenue I am trying (among others) is to show the impracticality of a device by finding a meathod of defeating it. Hence a non conductive bullet. I've started researching materials from past experience on materials research it could take weeks, so I thought I'd add a few more good brains to the effort.

He does not believe it is possible to make a (semi-practical) bullet out of non conductive materials.

[TKM]

Taofledermaus has been doing this for years.

[Yugo]

found these guys at the shot show couple years back http://polycaseammo.com/

[kcheung2]

well apparently there's this.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1051084

Is plain ole lead all that conductive? While a massive yet compact EM field running at room temperature with constantly changing polarity along all 3 axes is conceivably possible, I sure wouldn't want to be in the middle of it.

And if he thinks he can make a practical demo, he ought to talk to the maglev guys. There's more money in high speed0 trains than there is in bullet proof vests.

[pacrat]

There were "wooden" practice bullets for military trainers.

There are "plastic" practice bullets for indoor pistol practice.

It would be possible to make "epoxy" bullets, heavier than either wood or plastic.

But, "Good Bullets" must be heavy for volume. Pretty much leaves out anything but metals, all of which are conductive.

JM2c

[MASTERLAB]

Now we are getting closer!

The m862 5.56nato training ammo is cool, I didn't know they made it, but it makes sense, it is the 5.56 equivalent of the ammo I spoke about before. The polycase ammo is closer to the mark, I'm reading up on it now. Keep the suggestions coming.

[SonofWWIIDI]

Your friend needs a .

[pacrat]

Now we are getting closer!

The m862 5.56nato training ammo is cool, I didn't know they made it, but it makes sense, it is the 5.56 equivalent of the ammo I spoke about before. The polycase ammo is closer to the mark, I'm reading up on it now. Keep the suggestions coming.

M862 uses a copper [conductive jacket] and polymer core.

Polycase ammo uses {powdered copper} injection molded bullet.

Neither are truly "non conductive".

A ceramic core, poly coated bullet may fit the bill. But I know of none ever actually made.

Cops use "bean bag" rounds for crowd control. Beans are non conductive if well dried.

They are projectiles, but then again, not considered 'bullets".

[whatmeworry]

Using the Google on the interwez I found........


Fluorocarbon resin bullet and method of making same
United States Patent 5214237

A bullet is provided which is substantially 100% pure fluorocarbon resin. In the preferred embodiment a fluorocarbon resin in the form of polytetrafluoroethylene, preferably Teflon from E.I. Dupont De Nemours Co., Inc. of New Jersey, also known as Dupont, is provided with multiple annular grooves near the rear end and a hollow point front end. The bullet in the preferred embodiment is characterized by having a high muzzle velocity, a very short effective range, and pulverizes on impact so as to deliver considerable hydrostatic shocking effect by delivery of all of its energy within the first two to three inches of target depth.

[pacrat]

Using the Google on the interwez I found........


Fluorocarbon resin bullet and method of making same
United States Patent 5214237

A bullet is provided which is substantially 100% pure fluorocarbon resin. In the preferred embodiment a fluorocarbon resin in the form of polytetrafluoroethylene, preferably Teflon from E.I. Dupont De Nemours Co., Inc. of New Jersey, also known as Dupont, is provided with multiple annular grooves near the rear end and a hollow point front end. The bullet in the preferred embodiment is characterized by having a high muzzle velocity, a very short effective range, and pulverizes on impact so as to deliver considerable hydrostatic shocking effect by delivery of all of its energy within the first two to three inches of target depth.

Wow, looks impressive on paper. 3,000fps from a 6" barrel. Total fragmentation in 2-3 inches of penetration. And it would definitely be "non conductive".

I do not agree with the annular grooves around base of bullet actually slowing it down much, if any. Big flat HPWC designed nose, yes. But the grooves around circumference are in the "low" pressure zone in flight and would add no appreciable drag.

JM2c

[rsrocket1]

For a device to be able to "electromagnetically" repel something, the object being repelled needs to either have an electrical charge or be magnetic. A bullet fired out of a gun has no magnetic charge and no electrical charge. On top of that, the energy required to stop an object fired at 900-3000 fps and radiate isotropically will be enormous. If he took high school Physics, make him show you how much electrical "work" it would take to stop a 500 ft-lb object (low power pistol round, a rifle bullet can have 4-5 times more), then make him show you how much energy it would take to make a "vest" that would stop the bullet from any angle. Put the burden of proof back on him.

As for your reply:

Put a glass marble in a plastic sabot and shoot it out of a muzzleloader and he's dead, problem solved. Don't bother working out any more neurons on that thought experiment.

Theories are fun to think out, but if the initial hypothesis is flawed, it doesn't make sense to go any further.

[jericho89]

Anything "electromagnetic" would not have any effect on a pure lead bullet. But even worse if a steel core bullet were used the electromagnet would actually pull the bullet into his theoretical vest. Only if the bullet has a specific magnetic charge could you in theory use the opposite magnetic charge to move the bullet. But with the speed of a bullet there would not be enough time to vary the trajectory to make a difference.

[spamsucker]

Tell your friend to take high school physics. He clearly has no idea what he's talking about. He's not just wrong, he's not even wrong which is worse.