gaming computer

[Teamwoody]

I got a really good deal on an out of date alienware from tigerdirect on closeout. I know alienware is frowned upon by hardcore gamers but for the price it was a steal. Basically it was about 3/4 year out of date. So maybe check them out if building is not your thing. I basically got the same thing you got there minus that nice graphics card for 999.99. The deal is long over but maybe they have something else going.

Curious why Alienware is frowned upon?

[nothinghere2c]

Curious why Alienware is frowned upon?

alienware is usually overpriced and you pay for the name. Its also frowned upon by more hardcore gamers as the "wannabe" gamer pc.

really there's nothing ultimately wrong with them as they use the same parts just marked up like hell

[Merc1138]

Curious why Alienware is frowned upon?

The last time I built a computer(instead of just upgrading an existing machine) and priced it against a comparably configured alienware box, I paid around $1500, alienware wanted around $3700. This was a few years ago.

Their mark up may not be as horrendous these days, but it's still pretty bad.

[billofrights]

Alienware is owned by Dell now. Prices are a lot more in line with reality and the support is pretty decent, for a company that large.

[Fizz]

I work for an OEM computer company have have spec'ed and built thousands of machines from junk boxes to 20,000 dollar servers. We're also a Dell partner with their lowest tier pricing schedule; I'm pretty familiar with how the industry works.

For the most part you can get pretty good value from a Large OEM. The reason they're able to do this mainly because of:

- Volume
- Kickbacks/Incentives
- Warranty support

Volume meaning they buy a lot of components, so they can interface directly with most manufacturers vs going through distribution channels/wholesalers. They also get good pricing due to just how much they buy.

Kickbacks/incentives. All that preinstalled junkware that comes on your new Dell? They get paid to preload that stuff on your machine and/or get a commission off of any sales that result.

Warranty/support - They also get price breaks because the warranty terms on the components die with the whole machines. Manufacturers don't have to support them beyond the mfg warranty. Generally if you buy an extended warranty through Dell, those warranty terms were extended to them through their component manufacturers (they won't provide direct to end user support, you have to go through the OEM); they make a good profit off selling stuff they get free. Of course, there's effort/labor/personnel costs involved to support those warranties to deliver on those warranties, but the margin's great. Also remember that their warranty support is outsourced.

When you build a PC yourself you're buying through either a retailer (Fry's, Best Buy, etc.) or a wholesaler that sells direct to public (Tiger Direct, newegg). You can get some cost savings here, but it's YOUR time and YOUR support and YOUR efforts that go into it. You're the end user so you're not concerned about margin.

However, there are also some perks

- Your component warranties have individual terms. Ex. Most Intel products are 3 years, hard disks 3-5 years (for OEM drives, retail drives actually have shorter terms and are more expensive because of their support anticipations).
- You get to custom tailor the build to your needs. You get more features with large OEM machines, but with custom you can tailor more of your budget into features you actually use. Ex. more memory instead of hard disk space, SSD VS HDD, etc. and you don't pay the premiums for 'customized' machines that are based on a standard configuration.

If you don't want to build it yourself, a small OEM may also be an option however.

-They have to source from Wholesalers/Distribution channels and mark up on top of that. Generally newegg/tiger direct pricing is their pricing. This means you're going to pay more VS something you built yourself.

However, they have some benefits:

- You can customize or have customized for you something tailored to you just as much as you would if you did it yourself.
- Most small OEM provide post sales support in house. Meaning they speak English.
- Most small OEMs are channel partners, meaning you get favorable treatment for warranty replacements. Ex. I sell a lot of Intel boards, if any intel product I sell goes bad, Intel will next day air advance replace me the product no questions asked. This means most of my warranty work is handled in a few days time, vs a few weeks through the consumer RMA channels, etc.

Courage, I think your system as quoted is a great value but your configuration they're doing a larger than normal margin.

I could build you a machine of similar configuration for 1580 before tax but only 1 year warranty. 24 inch monitor with speakers, and Logitech KB/Ms. However, you get to keep all of your component manufacturer's full warranties. I didn't quote the wireless adapter though as I'm not sure you'd need that. Also, I can get a 64GB SSD for your OS/programs for another 75.

See:

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/4976/buildkc.png

http://imageshack.us/a/img197/9515/build2a.png

[Fizz]

Alienware is owned by Dell now. Prices are a lot more in line with reality and the support is pretty decent, for a company that large.

Alienware still has huge margin on them. You should see what my prices are vs dell direct one some of their high end stuff. Ex. something 5k dollars is 3300 my cost, . Really depends on what it is though.

I'm actually most happy of Dell's acquisition of Sonicwall. That's actually been a really nice relationship for us.

[Fizz]

Bigger power supply is always better

Not true.

Power supplies have an optimum range for efficiency. The machine he posted will probably peak draw about ~300-350 watts at full load CPU/graphics. Truth be told, most 1000watt + PSUs never exceed 1/3rd that in consumption from the outlet (computers draw what they need to use, not what the PSU is necessarily rated for). There are certain load ranges where the PSUs are most efficient. Underutilizing a PSU can make it lossy(ier). The wattage rating is there so you have a buffer, a PSUs ability to deliver stable, clean power diminishes the closer you get to its maximum.

However, you need to balance the cost with the needs of the system and hit the 'sweet spot' for efficiency if you want the highest ROI.

[Fizz]

Yeah, but people like to assume they get no tech support, warranty, etc. Everything has been made to fit in only one direction or has been color coded for years. Save a couple hundred bucks, get better individual components, and don't waste the difference for a half hour's worth of labor(if you're slow about it) as if you can't do the same job some unskilled laborer with no education can do at a factory in China.

It's not that simple for some.

Last week I had a guy try to build his own system and give up and pay us ~100 dollars to do it for him.

He made all kinds of mistakes.

- Twisted the 1155 heatsink posts after he pressed them in, meaning the HSF was not actually mounted securely to the board. This caused it to overheat/shutdown shortly after powering on
- Couldn't figure out why it would only work with onboard video. He didn't plug in the dual PCI-Ex 6 pin connectors on the video card
- Wanted to put in a raid, but didn't have a clue as to how to go about entering the RAID BIOS to enable RAID, enter the RAID bios, create the array, etc. He also cabled the drives with differing SATA cables. I've seen this cause weird things with arrays more times than I can count.
- Didn't have the Power/HDD LEDs hooked up with the correct polarity. Power/reset connectors reversed.
- Placed a motherboard mounting stud in the wrong location, which shorted out the board causing the onboard ethernet ports to not work


I'm pretty sure there was more fail, but that's all I care to recall at the moment.

[Merc1138]

Alienware is owned by Dell now. Prices are a lot more in line with reality and the support is pretty decent, for a company that large.

Yes, their prices have come down since being bought by Dell in recent years, but their mark up is still ridiculous(not to mention it seems like they have less system variety than ever for desktops, weird.. "gaming laptop" lol).

Fizz is correct, and his own quote really falls right in line with what I mentioned from my extremely brief shopping on newegg based on the OP's specs.

Big box(dell/hp/etc.) gaming desktops are simply overpriced. If I remember correctly, didn't HP buy Falcon Northwest? Those guys were one of Alienware's competitors and while their markup wasn't as high it was still within the realm of ludicrous.

With regards to the guy that mentioned an oil change...

If going to an oil change shop cost me $400 an hour in labor compared to spending a half hour doing it myself with only one screwdriver and not having any mess to clean up that I can't simply toss in the trash(cardboard and packaging from the computer components), you bet your *** I'd be doing my own oil changes.

It's not that simple for some.

Last week I had a guy try to build his own system and give up and pay us ~100 dollars to do it for him.

He made all kinds of mistakes.

- Twisted the 1155 heatsink posts after he pressed them in, meaning the HSF was not actually mounted securely to the board. This caused it to overheat/shutdown shortly after powering on
- Couldn't figure out why it would only work with onboard video. He didn't plug in the dual PCI-Ex 6 pin connectors on the video card
- Wanted to put in a raid, but didn't have a clue as to how to go about entering the RAID BIOS to enable RAID, enter the RAID bios, create the array, etc. He also cabled the drives with differing SATA cables. I've seen this cause weird things with arrays more times than I can count.
- Didn't have the Power/HDD LEDs hooked up with the correct polarity. Power/reset connectors reversed.
- Placed a motherboard mounting stud in the wrong location, which shorted out the board causing the onboard ethernet ports to not work


I'm pretty sure there was more fail, but that's all I care to recall at the moment.

Oh I know, I've fixed similar messes myself. Of course I expect that the OP is capable of RTFM which is generally the cause for people making mistakes like we've seen. Fortunately I'm no longer in such a business that requires me to put up with that nonsense.

[Fizz]

Oh I know, I've fixed similar messes myself. Of course I expect that the OP is capable of RTFM which is generally the cause for people making mistakes like we've seen. Fortunately I'm no longer in such a business that requires me to put up with that nonsense.

Neither am I. I don't do a lot of PC specs/sales anymore. My role is mostly the IT end of our the business now. I still do some specs, especially for the higher end stuff, but I'm rarely hands on.

Though, now my problems are harder, people more demanding and there's a lot more to lose if a mistake is made.

Sometimes when I'm trying to figure out why a site-site VPN keeps dropping with no perceptible reason, the users affected are trying to make me get it back up that second and related providers I can't get to assist.... I'd much prefer the stupidty of the hardware end of things.

... then there's the printing/wireless/server/domain/application problems.

[Armed24-7]

I'm going to start this off by saying i can NOT build my own set up and I'm not looking for the most high preformence computer I'm looking for a computer that will run any game decently.

will these specs do so? Windows 8 64
3rd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-3770 quad-core processor [3.4GHz, 8MB Shared Cache]
8GB DDR3-1333MHz SDRAM [2 DIMMs]
1TB 7200 rpm SATA hard drive
2GB Nvidia GTX680 [Dual Brackek; DVI, HDMI, DP & VGA via adapter]
600W Power supply
Wireless-N LAN card (1x1)
15-in-1 memory card reader, 2 USB 2.0 (front), 2 USB 3.0 (top)

it's the HP ENVY h8-1420t Desktop PC customized. 1700$ with shipping. i know it's quite a bit cheaper to build it but i don't want to deal with the headache

thanks.

Although my full time job is something completely different, I have been into PC's since Windows 3.1, running on a 286. I build, repair, upgrade, you name it. I am use to be into gaming bigtime, but its just one in a while now.

HP is not known for making gaming rigs. However, those specs look fiine at first glance. You woud get a much bigger bang for your buck if you could build your own.

If you ar using that for gaming, I would recommend upgrading your memory to 16gb, or at minimum of 12gb. Make sure the video card is NOT integrated into the motherboard and that the video memory is NOT shared memory. You want a dedicated stand-alone video card with it's own dedicated 2gb of memory.

That 600W power supply may be a bit too low. 600W will work, but it will run hot while you are gaming and will be prone to early failure. For a gaming rig, it is best to get a power that is rated for at least 800W.

Finally, I would recomend a secondary hard drive. A smaller capacity primary drive and a large capacity secondary drive would be ideal. You would install all your games on the secondary drive and reserve your primary hard drive for the OS, AV, web browser(s), etc. Games would load faster because the game you are pplaying and the OS and/or AV would not be competing for hard drive resources.

Good luck!

[chrisf]

I have always wanted an alienware when I was younger..... Waaaaaaay too expensive.

[Fizz]

If you ar using that for gaming, I would recommend upgrading your memory to 16gb, or at minimum of 12gb. Make sure the video card is NOT integrated into the motherboard and that the video memory is NOT shared memory. You want a dedicated stand-alone video card with it's own dedicated 2gb of memory.

That 600W power supply may be a bit too low. 600W will work, but it will run hot while you are gaming and will be prone to early failure. For a gaming rig, it is best to get a power that is rated for at least 800W.

Finally, I would recomend a secondary hard drive. A smaller capacity primary drive and a large capacity secondary drive would be ideal. You would install all your games on the secondary drive and reserve your primary hard drive for the OS, AV, web browser(s), etc. Games would load faster because the game you are pplaying and the OS and/or AV would not be competing for hard drive resources.

Good luck!

16Gb of memory is overkill. However, DDR3 is so cheap these days why not? Most games aren't system memory intensive, the ones that are aren't going to use 8Gb. I think you know there's a difference between 'gaming' meaning Solitaire and gaming meaning Skyrim, Crysis etc. Point being 'gaming' is an overly broad way to make specifications determinations.

600w vs 800w. If you pull 300 watts with a 600 watt power supply or an 800watt power supply, your total heat dissipation will be the same. A lower rated PSU may be more efficient at load than a higher rated PSU, so you have to consider the PSUs efficiency along the curve. An 800 watt will have larger components/'sinks and would ostensibly run cooler. Though, any quality power supply would carry a 5 year warranty. You'll have better luck with a high quality, lower rated 500 than you would with 1000w off branded one. Computer components get more energy efficient per the performance as time goes on; PSU requirements actually go down, not up as time goes on. Even a 500 would do just fine and I know this from having thousands of machines deployed for several years for exactly what the OP is doing. Trust me, when something goes wrong I hear about it.

SSDs make great primary drives with plattered drives for storage. Crucial m4s can be had for 75+. For people that don't need oodles of storage SSDs have been my go to as the sole storage media.

[courage1]

16Gb of memory is overkill. However, DDR3 is so cheap these days why not? Most games aren't system memory intensive, the ones that are aren't going to use 8Gb. I think you know there's a difference between 'gaming' meaning Solitaire and gaming meaning Skyrim, Crysis etc. Point being 'gaming' is an overly broad way to make specifications determinations.

600w vs 800w. If you pull 300 watts with a 600 watt power supply or an 800watt power supply, your total heat dissipation will be the same. A lower rated PSU may be more efficient at load than a higher rated PSU, so you have to consider the PSUs efficiency along the curve. An 800 watt will have larger components/'sinks and would ostensibly run cooler. Though, any quality power supply would carry a 5 year warranty. You'll have better luck with a high quality, lower rated 500 than you would with 1000w off branded one. Computer components get more energy efficient per the performance as time goes on; PSU requirements actually go down, not up as time goes on. Even a 500 would do just fine and I know this from having thousands of machines deployed for several years for exactly what the OP is doing. Trust me, when something goes wrong I hear about it.

SSDs make great primary drives with plattered drives for storage. Crucial m4s can be had for 75+. For people that don't need oodles of storage SSDs have been my go to as the sole storage media.

i want to play borderlands 2 full phyix running on ultra

[courage1]

Don't build your own. I fully respect what Merc is saying and he's 100% correct but if you don't care to or aren't comfortable it'll go from you embarking on a project you enjoy to a constant headache. At least you'll get a warranty, for what it's worth.

The machine you spec'd out is pretty decent but I'd bump up the RAM as far as you can afford, go with either 16 or 32 gb. RAM is fairly inexpensive and is a huge performance booster, especially in games. I just spent close to $4k building a new gaming computer and from the time I turn it on until I'm playing Borderlands 2 is around 1 minute. Also, I'd strongly recommend putting in a smaller (128-256gb) SSD and then just use that 1Tb drive as storage space. It will make a big difference in performance.

I've built every computer I've owned for the past 15 years. I do network support for a university and I used to work for a system builder where I'd put together upwards of 30 PCs a day. So I'm comfortable doing it. I would NEVER try and dissuade someone from taking that leap and learning a new skill, but you mentioned that's not what you're looking to do. I know how to change the oil on my car too, but it's not worth my time to do it myself.

If you do decide to build one yourself feel free to PM me for any tips or advice.

will the pc i spec'd play any modern game on ultra?-completely maxed out- such as borderlands 2 or battlefield 3?