Apple iPad 2 or Samsung Galaxy 10.1???

[JDay]

All of the major software devs are targeting the iPad and are not even looking at Android. Yes, even with Honeycomb now out.

You're more than a little out of touch with reality here. As you can see from a simple Google search.

http://venturebeat.com/2011/02/02/flash-game-developers-flock-to-android-and-overseas-markets-exclusive/

While 10 percent of the developers said they are currently developing on Android, more than 52 percent said they planned to begin doing so in the next year. That’s a big change from last year, when about 42 percent said they planned to make games for the iOS, or Apple’s iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad devices. Android has come on strong in the past year, toppling Nokia as the world’s leader in smartphones in the fourth quarter.

And here's a recent survey of students.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/student_developers_prefer_android_at_university_of.php

16% said they preferred Android. Just 2% chose iPhone, less than the 3% who indicated "mobile Web" was their preference.

The truth is that developers are moving away from iOS, one of the main reasons is that they really have no way of knowing if their app will even be allowed into the app store until they publish it. Apple also forces you to buy one of their computers and a developers kit if you wish to develop for iOS. Not to mention that there are far more Android devices out there, which in turn means that developers stand to make a much larger profit by targeting those devices. If you're still not convinced here's an article from this month that says the same thing.

http://newestmobilephones.info/android/game-companies-prefer-android-over-apple/

Seemingly, thеѕе game companies dο believe thаt Android rules over Apple: NVIDIA, GameStop, OnLive, Sony, Alienware аnd Valve.

Thе qυеѕtіοn уου probably hаνе οn уουr уουr minds іѕ thіѕ: Whаt’s wіth Android? Simply рlасе, thеrе аrе сеrtаіn things thаt mаkіng a bet companies саn dο wіth Android whісh wουld bе impossible tο dο wіth Apple. Fοr instance, Sony wanted tο mаkе ехсеllеnt υѕе οf thе controller built іntο thе Xperia Play аnd thе multitouch screen οn іtѕ imminent NGP game console suggests thаt іt probably hаѕ learned a lot frοm Android tοο.

Furthermore, various game developers аrе figuring out thаt thеіr games perform better οn Android thаn iOS. Thе game company Spacetime Studios hаѕ learned thаt thеіr Pocket Legends MMORPG earns much more money οn Android thаn οn iOS, although thе iOS version hаѕ bееn out fοr a long time already.

iOS was cool when it was the only game in town, but now it has lost its appeal. I predict that in a few years about the only people who will still be using iOS devices will be the die hard Apple loyalists.

You can hear opinions from all sorts of people but when it comes to this type of subject I am E.F. Hutton. When I talk people listen. And that is because I am privy to the business plans of million and even billion dollar companies. If you want a full break down of what is different about the iPad two and why it is better then the original iPad I'll be happy to spell it out for you. Or you can make it easy on both of us and just take my word for it.

Sounds like someone has a superiority complex.

[redrex]

Oh good grief. Lets see if we can make quick work of this. I'm guessing not.

1. Your first link was to an article about a survey on flash game development that was paid for by... A FLASH GAME PUBLISHER? A company that makes money buy "helping developers monetize their games", read as "We milk independent game devs dry and then toss them aside". How do I know this? Because I get 4 or 5 calls a DAY from these goons. This article is a PR piece for a flash pub who is trying to promote their business. In all likelihood it was ghost written by their PR group. I know because I used to write them back when I did PR.

2. A survey of Students is your next argument? I was talking about "Major Publishers" and you bring me students? Since when do students who don't even have jobs qualify as a serious reference to the state of any industry? Why would you include this? Heck, what idiot would survey students? He could have surveyed a pack of poodles and gotten as much useful info from them.

3. Then you say the "The truth is that developers are moving away from iOS" Really? According to who, you? And I'm the one who is "out of touch". What about publishers, you know the actual C Corps. The real players with the real money. Not the guy in his dorm room running an emulator because he doesn't have the cash for a dev system. And did you even look at your charts? They say they are doing dev for Android, yet most of them had iPhones. Hmmmmm. Wonder what that means. OH, and the number one reason is that they know Java and Objective C is hard. Ahhh, poor babies.

4. Pocket Legends earns much more money οn Android thаn οn iOS. Wow right? Sorry but no, they are the single exception. One app does not the rule make or break. In fact I have read about 20 articles regarding this. They make more money on Android because of in-game micro transactions. Read all the other articles about them and they point that out quite clearly that no one else is being successful like this. http://techie-buzz.com/mobile-news/a...ent-myths.html

5. And Lastly... Everything you quoted was about PHONES! Not tablets! We were talking tablets yes? Read what the CEO of Nvidia is saying. "Disappointing Android Tablet sales", "Not enough tablet optimized apps". 17 on Android vs. 65,000 on iPad 2. Lets say that again... 17 vs. 65,000!!! http://www.digitalversus.com/android...ews-19279.html

Your argument about the cost of dev on the iOS is my point. The cost is there to keep the riff raff out. Being an Android Dev is the equivalent of being a Web Designer back in 2000. Everyone and their brother is an Android Dev. I'm pretty sure my cat is a Dev. Do you know what it takes to be an Android developer? Nothing, you just say you are one and that's it. Have they made any money? Have they even published a working title? Doesn't matter welcome to our developer base. iOS has a very small cost of entry yet still it is enough to weed out at least some of the worst devs. I wish it were more. Try publishing on Xbox, Wii or PS3. Dev kits starting at $10k and you have to get approval before they will even let you lease one.

Did any of your "simple google searches" look for anything that didn't try to support your point of view? Try doing a search for "hard to make money on Android". You should come across this... Its from the big boys on the block, the creators of Angry Birds, the number 1 money making game in the mobile market. Even they have a hard time making money on Android and they have all the free press that anyone could ask for and more. http://news.brothersoft.com/angry-bi...roid-4010.html

iOS was cool when it was the only game in town, but now it has lost its appeal. I predict that in a few years about the only people who will still be using iOS devices will be the die hard Apple loyalists.

That's nice, and you base this on what real world factors? What exactly is your expertise in this matter anyway? How do you know it "lots it's appeal? Appeal to you maybe. Sales figures would seem to say otherwise.


iOS is losing ground to Android, Yes and no. Apple isn't losing share so much as Android has passed them by taking shares from other OS's. But don't cry for apple. They have market share where it counts. ie. with people who have money AND buy apps! But how did Android get all that market share, oh yeah, it's free! Android is a FREE OS, that is why so may many manufactures use that format. It's hard to not make your sales quota when your product is free! As such you will find it on every craptastic smart-phone out there. Android is a great OS but it isn't cutting it as the go to OS for the everyday person. iOS has mainstream mass appeal. Apple has mastered that market. 10 years ago MS was the big boy on the block and Apple wasn't sure if they were going to be in business the next year. Their stock was selling at $10 a share. Today they closed at $336. They have a market cap of over $300B, a third again bigger then MS, IBM or anyone else in their market. You don't get that big because of "fan boys".

Good lord but I've wasted far to much time with this. Talk about leading a horse to water. All I wanted to do was help out a fellow Calgunner with some inside information. I realize I didn't say what you wanted to hear. But part of being an adult is hearing the guy with 20 year experience and going, Hmmm he may know something I don't mayhaps I should look into that. It's not immediately scouring the interwebs to find some clearly biased nobody who when you quote him just right backs up what you want to believe. If you had spent any decent amount of time and NOT been looking with blinders on you would have found the same information that I just linked to and I wouldn't be here having to set the record straight.

I'm going back to bed now. I stayed home sick today and I'm obviously short of temper tonight. My apologies to anyone if I seem quip'ish. I am sure that I come off as a total ***. That being said, it doesn't make me any less right.

G'night all.

PS. I did mention that I do this for a living right? I wasn't being koi about that was I? And yes I know it's "coy" I'm trying to lighten the damn mood.

[JDay]

1. A flash game publisher, really? Did you even attempt to see what VentureBeat does? I can assure you that they do not "milk independent game devs dry and then toss them aside".

http://venturebeat.com/about/

2. Students are very relevant to this discussion. They are the ones writing many of these apps in their spare time (and a few have become millionaires in the process, while still in school). They are also the ones who will decide what platforms live and die in the future based on what languages they prefer to program in. Most students also do not buy Macs, and everyone knows that people stick with what they're familiar with.

3. According to the developers themselves, many hate writing iOS apps because it is a hassle, many also chose to stick with languages they already know (Java is pretty universal among developers). Apple might also decide to reject your app, at which point you have just wasted a bunch of time on an app that will not make you any money. And the only thing that is easier to do when developing for iOS is test your apps.

4. Do you want to know why they get so many micro transactions in the game on Android? It's a real shocker. Because there are more Android devices on the market. Who would have guessed getting a game out to more devices would bring in more money? The very fact that this game is also on iOS, and has been on iOS much longer, reinforces this. It is irrefutable.

You also chose to ignore the major game developers that I listed, who all have been very public about preferring Android over iOS. Or do you just think they make no difference?

And exactly what does any of this have to do with publishers? Publishers are not programmers. In fact both the Android Market and Apple's App Store cut out the publishers. Anyone can write an app for either platform and put it in the store themselves, and not have to worry about the publishers milking them dry. Publishers have no relevance to what platform developers are writing for anyway, all they do is publish other peoples work.

Your argument about the cost of dev on the iOS is my point. The cost is there to keep the riff raff out.

No, the cost is there because it is part of Apple's "bleed them dry and bleed them some more" business model. Apple does not do anything without figuring out how to maximize profits first.

Do you know what it takes to be an Android developer? Nothing, you just say you are one and that's it. Have they made any money? Have they even published a working title?

It doesn't take much to develop for any platform, it does take talent and skill to develop good applications however. And yes they have plenty of apps that make money, they work too. And it does not matter if it takes more skill to write an iOS app if somebody else can get an app out that does the same thing in a shorter time period, first one to market usually wins when it comes to software, why do you think OS/2 never caught on? In fact the faster you can get your product to market the better, because then you can move on to your next project while the previous one is bringing in revenue.

You should come across this... Its from the big boys on the block, the creators of Angry Birds, the number 1 money making game in the mobile market. Even they have a hard time making money on Android and they have all the free press that anyone could ask for and more.

From that article.

Till now, there's a free version of "Angry Birds" for Android users available, a 99-cent version for the iPhone is a huge success. And the iPhone will continue to be "the No. 1 platform for a long time from a developer perspective." Apple recently said Angry Birds was the best-selling iPhone app of 2010.

You mean to tell me that you make less giving your app away than you do selling it? I'm shocked!

But how did Android get all that market share, oh yeah, it's free! Android is a FREE OS, that is why so may many manufactures use that format. It's hard to not make your sales quota when your product is free!

It's only free until you want to say your device is an Android device, at which point you have to pay to have your device certified. Google apps also are not free to bundle. Google is not taking any kind of loss with Android. Not that this matters since Apple doesn't license their operating systems. And you act like Android is a bad thing because it is free, did you know much of the code in Apple's operating systems is open source too? Without free software I doubt Apple would even be in business anymore.

You may do this for a living but you are mistaken about some things. Android is going to be the winner in mobile devices for the same reason Windows won the desktop wars, because it is everywhere.

[DaveInOroValley]

Oh good grief. Lets see if we can make quick work of this. I'm guessing not.

1. Your first link was to an article about a survey on flash game development that was paid for by... A FLASH GAME PUBLISHER? A company that makes money buy "helping developers monetize their games", read as "We milk independent game devs dry and then toss them aside". How do I know this? Because I get 4 or 5 calls a DAY from these goons. This article is a PR piece for a flash pub who is trying to promote their business. In all likelihood it was ghost written by their PR group. I know because I used to write them back when I did PR.

2. A survey of Students is your next argument? I was talking about "Major Publishers" and you bring me students? Since when do students who don't even have jobs qualify as a serious reference to the state of any industry? Why would you include this? Heck, what idiot would survey students? He could have surveyed a pack of poodles and gotten as much useful info from them.

3. Then you say the "The truth is that developers are moving away from iOS" Really? According to who, you? And I'm the one who is "out of touch". What about publishers, you know the actual C Corps. The real players with the real money. Not the guy in his dorm room running an emulator because he doesn't have the cash for a dev system. And did you even look at your charts? They say they are doing dev for Android, yet most of them had iPhones. Hmmmmm. Wonder what that means. OH, and the number one reason is that they know Java and Objective C is hard. Ahhh, poor babies.

4. Pocket Legends earns much more money οn Android thаn οn iOS. Wow right? Sorry but no, they are the single exception. One app does not the rule make or break. In fact I have read about 20 articles regarding this. They make more money on Android because of in-game micro transactions. Read all the other articles about them and they point that out quite clearly that no one else is being successful like this. http://techie-buzz.com/mobile-news/a...ent-myths.html

5. And Lastly... Everything you quoted was about PHONES! Not tablets! We were talking tablets yes? Read what the CEO of Nvidia is saying. "Disappointing Android Tablet sales", "Not enough tablet optimized apps". 17 on Android vs. 65,000 on iPad 2. Lets say that again... 17 vs. 65,000!!! http://www.digitalversus.com/android...ews-19279.html

Your argument about the cost of dev on the iOS is my point. The cost is there to keep the riff raff out. Being an Android Dev is the equivalent of being a Web Designer back in 2000. Everyone and their brother is an Android Dev. I'm pretty sure my cat is a Dev. Do you know what it takes to be an Android developer? Nothing, you just say you are one and that's it. Have they made any money? Have they even published a working title? Doesn't matter welcome to our developer base. iOS has a very small cost of entry yet still it is enough to weed out at least some of the worst devs. I wish it were more. Try publishing on Xbox, Wii or PS3. Dev kits starting at $10k and you have to get approval before they will even let you lease one.

Did any of your "simple google searches" look for anything that didn't try to support your point of view? Try doing a search for "hard to make money on Android". You should come across this... Its from the big boys on the block, the creators of Angry Birds, the number 1 money making game in the mobile market. Even they have a hard time making money on Android and they have all the free press that anyone could ask for and more. http://news.brothersoft.com/angry-bi...roid-4010.html

That's nice, and you base this on what real world factors? What exactly is your expertise in this matter anyway? How do you know it "lots it's appeal? Appeal to you maybe. Sales figures would seem to say otherwise.


iOS is losing ground to Android, Yes and no. Apple isn't losing share so much as Android has passed them by taking shares from other OS's. But don't cry for apple. They have market share where it counts. ie. with people who have money AND buy apps! But how did Android get all that market share, oh yeah, it's free! Android is a FREE OS, that is why so may many manufactures use that format. It's hard to not make your sales quota when your product is free! As such you will find it on every craptastic smart-phone out there. Android is a great OS but it isn't cutting it as the go to OS for the everyday person. iOS has mainstream mass appeal. Apple has mastered that market. 10 years ago MS was the big boy on the block and Apple wasn't sure if they were going to be in business the next year. Their stock was selling at $10 a share. Today they closed at $336. They have a market cap of over $300B, a third again bigger then MS, IBM or anyone else in their market. You don't get that big because of "fan boys".

Good lord but I've wasted far to much time with this. Talk about leading a horse to water. All I wanted to do was help out a fellow Calgunner with some inside information. I realize I didn't say what you wanted to hear. But part of being an adult is hearing the guy with 20 year experience and going, Hmmm he may know something I don't mayhaps I should look into that. It's not immediately scouring the interwebs to find some clearly biased nobody who when you quote him just right backs up what you want to believe. If you had spent any decent amount of time and NOT been looking with blinders on you would have found the same information that I just linked to and I wouldn't be here having to set the record straight.

I'm going back to bed now. I stayed home sick today and I'm obviously short of temper tonight. My apologies to anyone if I seem quip'ish. I am sure that I come off as a total ***. That being said, it doesn't make me any less right.

G'night all.

PS. I did mention that I do this for a living right? I wasn't being koi about that was I? And yes I know it's "coy" I'm trying to lighten the damn mood.

I think this was a great article. Well written, fact based and logical. Well done!

[kozumasbullitt]

I like apple products because they are easy to use. I just picked up an ipad2 and it is simple and does everything I need. I could care less about what you can do with an android because the iPad does everything I want. instead of looking at 3rd party surveys I got my hands on different tablets, the only problem is the ipad2 is sold out everywhere while all androids are just sitting on the shelves. I was able to test drive a xoom vs ipad2 from a couple guys at work and the ipad2 was the clear choice for me.

[redrex]

You need to take a timeout. I realize that your tech godliness has been challenged and that is upsetting to you but you need to step back and get some perspective. In my first post I gave a very straight forward professional viewpoint and you chose to attack me personally. Saying I was "out of touch" and had a "superiority complex" then when I clearly break down the fact that you are just regurgitating random articles that you are cherry picking for information you don't even take 5 seconds to actually read what I wrote before responding.

1. A flash game publisher, really? Did you even attempt to see what VentureBeat does? I can assure you that they do not "milk independent game devs dry and then toss them aside".

Ok, this right here shows me that you are not even reading the articles that you, yourself are using to prop up your argument. I said the SURVEY was paid for by a flash game publisher. And I quote "It (the survey) was produced by Mochi Media, which helps developers monetize their games" Are you following this? MOCHI MEDIA. The survey was NOT done by VentureBeat, it was paid for by Mochi Media! Good grief why do I have to repeat myself. Heck, did you even notice the title of the article? "Flash game developers flock to Android". Well DUH, there is no flash on iOS. Where else would they flock to, Miami beach?

I should just drop it right here because there can not possible be clearer proof that not only do you not know what you are talking about but that you are not even trying to get your facts right. Unfortunately I'm still pumped full of cold medicine and not making the best choices with my time right now.

Students are very relevant to this discussion. They are the ones writing many of these apps in their spare time (and a few have become millionaires in the process, while still in school). They are also the ones who will decide what platforms live and die in the future based on what languages they prefer to program in. Most students also do not buy Macs, and everyone knows that people stick with what they're familiar with.

And I thought I was the one who was medicated. This statement is so full of fail I don't know where to start. Spare Time Millionaires? OMG! This is like surveying unregistered voters on who is going to be the next president. "They will decide what platforms live and die"??? WTF, you are just making stuff up now right? Please show me one industry metric that backs this up. I can't even begin to address this as it is completely and totally MADE UP. This is total fantasy. "Students don't buy Macs"???????? Am I being punked? I'm being punked right? Ashton is this you?

According to the developers themselves, many hate writing iOS apps because it is a hassle, many also chose to stick with languages they already know (Java is pretty universal among developers). Apple might also decide to reject your app, at which point you have just wasted a bunch of time on an app that will not make you any money. And the only thing that is easier to do when developing for iOS is test your apps.

You do realize that you are talking about your students here again. "it's a hassle"? Yes for amateurs I'm sure it is. For full time devs and publishers it's called WORK. Did you see the part of your survey that showed that 60% of the "devs" they talked to were part time?

Do you want to know why they get so many micro transactions in the game on Android? It's a real shocker. Because there are more Android devices on the market. Who would have guessed getting a game out to more devices would bring in more money? The very fact that this game is also on iOS, and has been on iOS much longer, reinforces this. It is irrefutable.

Irrefutable? Ok, lets try this. iOS only recently allowed in game purchases as opposed to Android that has allowed this for some time. As such, the truth is that as a fully monitizable app it has been on Android longer then iOS. So much for "irrefutable". And lets now forget. THIS IS THE ONE EXCEPTION, not the rule. One game does not a trend make.

You also chose to ignore the major game developers that I listed

Ummm. I didn't "ignore" them, You did not list any. At least I can't find any in your post. Can someone else help me here, did I just miss them?

What does any of this have to do with publishers? Publishers are not programmers. In fact both the Android Market and Apple's App Store cut out the publishers. Anyone can write an app for either platform and put it in the store themselves, and not have to worry about the publishers milking them dry. Publishers have no relevance to what platform developers are writing for anyway, all they do is publish other peoples work.

Publishers EMPLOY programmers! You don't have even the basic understanding of my industry or how it works. Publishers PAY devs to make applications. Publisher then pay for advertising, PR and other marketing. They pay very senior people, the ones who have lots of experience and know what they are doing, they pay them to make new products. To say that publishers have no relevance in this market is the biggest piece of evidence that you have any experience in this industry nor do you understand how it works. You sound like you might even be a student or someone fairly young who wants the world to be a certain way and gets upset when their world view is not supported by the facts. If this wasn't a gun board I'd guess you were from Berkeley.


Then you quote what I've been saying all along... "the iPhone will continue to be "the No. 1 platform for a long time from a developer perspective." Well I'm glad to see that you have come around.

You may do this for a living but you are mistaken about some things. Android is going to be the winner in mobile devices for the same reason Windows won the desktop wars, because it is everywhere.

Really? I noticed that you totally ignored my link to an article from the CEO of Nvidia who says that Android tablet is not selling well. Remember we are talking tablets here.

And I never said who was going to win in the end. I said that for now and the foreseeable future that the iOS would continue to dominate and was the best product to purchase now.

Your argument is basically that a bunch of part time devs, mostly students will triumph over well paid, well funded professional developers. You know there is another business model like this out there. Linux vs. Windows. How is that working out for them.

You do know that the OP was asking for help right. Honest, un-opinionated help. I am trying to do that. What exactly are you trying to do?

OP, I hope these views helped. I am a professional and I do this for a living. I did mention that right Did I also mention that we are platform independent. I make money regardless of the platform that is chosen. As such I do not have a dog in this fight.


JDay, I will not respond to any more posts in this thread. I'm done wasting my time. The facts should be the basis that forms your opinion, while you clearly have an opinion that is in search of facts. You have totally ignored facts, misrepresented them and often just fabricated them. "Students decide which will live or die?" I honestly think I lost brain cells just reading that.

I'm going back to bed now. Have fun.

[peter95]

JDay and redex.... I read every word that you guys posted on this thread and honestly, it was a great read. I took a lot of info from both sides and thanks for the help.

I still have not decided what I want yet, so I think I should write some of the things I plan or want with whichever device I want.

I want to be able to watch great HD movies, play some games and that's about it.
Yes, I know both are great at what they do, and the only reason why I lean a little more towards the Galaxy is because of the customized interface.

In many ways, the iPad does hold up their value very well so that was another reason why I wanted the ipad and along with how it is easy to hook up my macbook pro to it and sync it without any problems. iPad is def. easier to work with, but at the same time, I do like custom =)

Man, im in a pickle haha. So heres the real question. Is there a huge huge difference between both? From what i have seen, i feel like they are both pretty much the same and I shall be happy with either one.

I will wait for the Galaxy to come out first, and mess around with it a little bit more before i make my grand decision.

anyways.... Keep this thread going though, I am getting a lot of knowledge from both parties. Thanks a lot!

[Cranium]

I bought the (O)G1 the week they came out. I'm an android fanboy. My wife had a G1, now a Droid, and I've got a Nexus one. Rooted, running CM.
I've been anti-Apple for a couple decades now.
My personal laptop died, and I wanted a tablet. I bought an iPad2. Why? Apps.
Lots of cool Android HW, but it's really the SW that matters. I do music and photography. Nothing on Android can touch what's available right now on iOS. Games, facetime and Netflix and Hulu are nice added bonuses.
I imagine I'll be back to Android in a couple years when the devs catch up. But I must say, I love my ipad when it comes to fun. Still hate Apple and their closed-system BS.

[gorn5150]

So I think i'm understanding what you want in a tablet peter95. You want to be able to play games and watch HD movies. Between the android honeycomb and iPad 2 doing that there is not a noticable difference. I think you will find more games for the iPad but that depends on what you want to play.

Just decide which you like better, the cost for a base iPad and android tablet are fairly close to one another. If you are considering resale I think the iPad wins.

[Nose Nuggets]

i love my ipad for working in the colo. there really isnt a place to put a laptop, and using it while holding it and walking around is tons easier.

[Diablo]

You're more than a little out of touch with reality here. As you can see from a simple Google search.

http://venturebeat.com/2011/02/02/flash-game-developers-flock-to-android-and-overseas-markets-exclusive/

And here's a recent survey of students.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/student_developers_prefer_android_at_university_of.php

The truth is that developers are moving away from iOS, one of the main reasons is that they really have no way of knowing if their app will even be allowed into the app store until they publish it. Apple also forces you to buy one of their computers and a developers kit if you wish to develop for iOS. Not to mention that there are far more Android devices out there, which in turn means that developers stand to make a much larger profit by targeting those devices. If you're still not convinced here's an article from this month that says the same thing.

http://newestmobilephones.info/android/game-companies-prefer-android-over-apple/

iOS was cool when it was the only game in town, but now it has lost its appeal. I predict that in a few years about the only people who will still be using iOS devices will be the die hard Apple loyalists.



Sounds like someone has a superiority complex.

I think this is a better article. Better written and based on reality. Excellent!!

[joefrank64k]

iPad2...