NFA Trusts (EDIT: Fee Added)

[hoffmang]

Hey Oak - how much you charging per?

-Gene

[Richy]

Hello, also wondering how much would you be charging for your service? I know there are programs that you can buy that will draft a quick Trust for you.

[oaklander]

Not sure yet. I will know in a couple of days. . .

Hey Oak - how much you charging per?

-Gene

[oaklander]

Hello, also wondering how much would you be charging for your service? I know there are programs that you can buy that will draft a quick Trust for you.

There are some people doing it that way. I would not advise it. Based on my preliminary research, there appear to be some issues specific to NFA Trusts that the off-the-shelf programs do not accommodate. Without going into specifics, you do not want a situation where the operation of a trust could later create an illegality.

I will have more details in a couple of days.

[blackberg]

Not sure yet. I will know in a couple of days. . .

Looking forward for the info.


How about someone coming up with a list of ideas of what to buy. Kind of like a shopping cart...err..wishlist of what to get

-bb

[ke6guj]

How about someone coming up with a list of ideas of what to buy. Kind of like a shopping cart...err..wishlist of what to get

-bb

Basically any AOW that is not a pen-gun and does not run afoul of the pistol AW regs. AR-pistol AOWs should be ok, but they still need to be fixed-mag.

And C&R SBS/SBRs are ok as well.

And I gues if you really wanted a big boomer, you could make something in 14.5mm Russian or find one of these, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTRD .

[M. Sage]

Yep, I'd like to put the front grip back on. Still have to keep the BB, but oh well. I'll live I guess

I thought that AOW was exempt from CA's dumb bans?

[ke6guj]

I thought that AOW was exempt from CA's dumb bans?

Remember, a federally registered AOW is exempt from only 12020 prohibitions. All other sections of the PC may still apply.

The pistol AW regs may apply per

12001. (a)(1) As used in this title, the terms "pistol," "revolver," and "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" shall apply to and include any device designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled a projectile by the force of any explosion, or other form of combustion, and that has a barrel less than 16 inches in length. These terms also include any device that has a barrel 16 inches or more in length which is designed to be interchanged with a barrel less than 16 inches in length.
(2) As used in this title, the term "handgun" means any "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person."

(b) As used in this title, "firearm" means any device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel a projectile by the force of any explosion or other form of combustion.

(f) Nothing shall prevent a device defined as a "handgun," "pistol," "revolver," or "firearm capable of being concealed upon the person" from also being found to be a short-barreled shotgun or a short-barreled rifle, as defined in Section 12020.

[M. Sage]

Ah, that's it. I forgot. Thanks for reminding me.

[Telperion]

I would be interested, but I would like to know specifics about the "value added" over Quicken Willmaker trusts, which have shown to be perfectly adequate as NFA ownership vehicles in other states.

I understand some lawyers who have advertised specialized NFA trusts have highlighted the issues regarding transfer after the grantor's death. It seems to me that leaving a detailed letter of instruction to the successor trustee along with a partly completed form 5 would take care of these issues. Am I mistaken, and are there other concerns?

[adamsreeftank]

PM Sent.

[oaklander]

The main idea is to make sure that the trust, by its operation, never creates an illegal situation. This has to remain true now, 20 years from now, 40 years from now, etc. . .

If you, or anyone else for that matter, wishes to use commercially available software to generate a revocable living "NFA trust" - by all means, give it a shot - and let me know how it works. . .



BUT, please, please, please make sure that you have a lawyer who is familiar with NFA issues review the completed document before you submit it to the ATF.

There is simply too much at risk to attempt to save a few bucks on something like this.

I would be interested, but I would like to know specifics about the "value added" over Quicken Willmaker trusts, which have shown to be perfectly adequate as NFA ownership vehicles in other states.

I understand some lawyers who have advertised specialized NFA trusts have highlighted the issues regarding transfer after the grantor's death. It seems to me that leaving a detailed letter of instruction to the successor trustee along with a partly completed form 5 would take care of these issues. Am I mistaken, and are there other concerns?

[Telperion]

I've read into the use of NFA trusts since they became widely known. It seems the common places where the legality of ownership comes into question are:

- someone other than trustee in possession
- trustee unable to serve, or legally disabled from possession
- beneficiary legally disabled from possession
- situations arising from a trust merger

Again, I've seen a lot of innuendo from lawyers, but I'd like to hear specifics of why Willmaker trusts are deficient.

[oaklander]

It is not proper for me to answer specific legal questions here. Nor do I wish to debate the relative costs vs. benefits of using a real lawyer versus using a "lawyer-in-a-box."

The purpose of this thread was simply to give a "status update" to the people who have contacted me in the past about NFA trusts. I'd like to stay on topic.

You sound like you have done a lot of research on NFA trusts. That's a good thing. I would still strongly recommend that you have an experienced attorney look over the resulting document that you create.

I've read into the use of NFA trusts since they became widely known. It seems the common places where the legality of ownership comes into question are:

- someone other than trustee in possession
- trustee unable to serve, or legally disabled from possession
- beneficiary legally disabled from possession
- situations arising from a trust merger

Again, I've seen a lot of innuendo from lawyers, but I'd like to hear specifics of why Willmaker trusts are deficient.

[oaklander]

OK - the waiting is over - the fee is $600.



Anyone who is interested is welcome to PM me - I can start immediately!

Hey Oak - how much you charging per?

-Gene