Gray Area Question

[wrs916]

So this thought just struck into my head......

Say you take your OLL complete rifle to the range for some practice. Say you also take a registered pre-ban (2000 ban) AW with you as well.

Since the OLL has a bullet button could you in theory use the 30 rounders in the OLL since you have a pre-ban AW in which you also had plenty of 30 rounders for it?

[69Mach1]

Nope.

[bigthaiboy]

Fixed mag rifle with "evil" features cannot have a mag capacity of more than 10rds. 11rds+ = AW.

[40caldeserteagle]

With a fixed mag (B.B) you are limited to 10 rounds. Check the flowchart, search, etc..

David F.

[wrs916]

With a fixed mag (B.B) you are limited to 10 rounds. Check the flowchart, search, etc..

David F.

Well thank god I bought plenty of pre-ban rifles prior to 2000 then LOL.

Thanks for the info guys.

[DedEye]

[All subsequent comments made assuming the OLL has a mag lock and/or evil features.]

That is not a gray area. That is illegal. Do not attempt it.

Ownership of a registered assault weapon does not allow you to create an unregistered assault weapon because you have the registered AW with you. Since you describe the OLL as having a bullet button, using large capacity magazines with it - even if the OLL has no evil features - would still be a creating an unregistered AW.

[Josh3239]

You can only use the mags in your registered AWs or featureless rifles. Featureless means detachable magazines and no magazine locks but you cannot have folding/telescoping stocks, flash hiders, pistol grips, or vertical foregrips.

[aplinker]

We're mixing two separate issues.

If you legally possess large capacity magazines you can use them in any rifle that has a detachable magazine. This includes so called "featureless" builds of OLLs.

The reason you can not use large capacity magazines in a bullet button equipped OLL is because it is a non-detachable magazine rifle and can not have a capacity larger than 10rds.

[tenpercentfirearms]

These guys are all wrong, if you in fact registered an AW back before 2000 or sooner.

Here you go.

12280. (a)(1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six, or eight years.
(2) In addition and consecutive to the punishment imposed under paragraph (1), any person who transfers, lends, sells, or gives any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle to a minor in violation of paragraph (1) shall receive an enhancement of one year.
(3) Except in the case of a first violation involving not more than two firearms as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c), for purposes of this section, if more than one assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is involved in any violation of this section, there shall be a distinct and separate offense for each.
(b) Any person who, within this state, possesses any assault weapon, except as provided in this chapter, is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for a period not exceeding one year, or by imprisonment in the state prison. However, a first violation of these provisions is punishable by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars ($500), if the person was found in possession of no more than two firearms in compliance with subdivision (c) of Section 12285and the person meets all of the following conditions:
(1) The person proves that he or she lawfully possessed the assault weapon prior to the date it was defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5.
(2) The person has not previously been convicted of a violation of this section.
(3) The person was found to be in possession of the assault weapon within one year following the end of the one-year registration period established pursuant to subdivision (a) of Section 12285.
(4) The person relinquished the firearm pursuant to Section 12288, in which case the assault weapon shall be destroyed pursuant to Section 12028.
(c) Any person who, within this state, possesses any .50 BMG rifle, except as provided in this chapter, is punishable by a fine of one thousand dollars($1,000), imprisonment in a county jail for a period not to exceed one year, or by both that fine and imprisonment. However, a first violation of these provisions is punishable by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars ($500), if the person was found in possession of no more than two firearms in compliance with subdivision (a) of Section 12285 and the person meets the conditions set forth in paragraphs (1), (2), and (3):

These guys are correctly reading that you have manufactured an assault weapon because you stuck a 30 round magazine in a fixed magazine rifle. It is true, you have manufactured an assault weapon. However, you have this protection:

(o) Subdivisions (a), (b), and (c) shall not apply to any of the following persons:
(1) A person acting in accordance with Section 12285.

Note that this exemption applies to any of the following persons and a person in accordance with 12285. It does not specify rifles. If you comply with 12285, you are person exempt and you cannot be charged with 12280(a), (b), or (c).

12285. (a)(1) Any person who lawfully possesses an assault weapon, as defined in Section 12276, prior to June 1, 1989, shall register the firearm by January 1, 1991, and any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was specified as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.5 shall register the firearm within 90 days, with the Department of Justice pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. Except as provided in subdivision (a) of Section 12280, any person who lawfully possessed an assault weapon prior to the date it was defined as an assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1, and which was not specified as an assault weapon under Section 12276 or 12276.5, shall register the firearm within one year of the effective date of Section 12276.1, with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish. The registration shall contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information that the department may deem appropriate. The department may charge a fee for registration of up to twenty dollars ($20) per person but not to exceed the actual processing costs of the department. After the department establishes fees sufficient to reimburse the department for processing costs, fees charged shall increase at a rate not to exceed the legislatively approved annual cost-of-living adjustment for the department's budget or as otherwise increased through the Budget Act. The fees shall be deposited into the Dealers' Record of Sale Special Account.

So if you properly registered your AW back for the 2000 ban and you further comply with the later parts of 12285 about storage and use, you are a person exempt and cannot be charged with 12280(A), (b), or (c).

That means you can take any of your firearms and manufacture and possess them as assault weapons. You are a person exempt.

Just keep in mind you might be the first test case on this too so be financially prepared to test this out and make sure you have the time to do it to.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

I'm not so sure the "acting in accordance" exception would exempt a person to the extent that creating an AW out of an OLL by locking in a 30 round mag would not be a violation if you already own one properly registered AW. I read what it says, and while it could be read in the suggested manner, there's so much vagueness in "acting in accordance" that I'd be loathe to rely on that to cover me for using 30 rounders in a BB build.

I would NOT want to be the test case on this issue!

[tenpercentfirearms]

So you interpret "acting in accordance" to be similar to "while you are registering" so it would be more for during a 90 day registration window. That is an interesting way to look at it and the fact you already have a registered AW would as you say make the practicality of doing a large-cap fixed mag build nearly worthless.

Where this would be worth it is if you didn't register an AK47, but wanted an assault weapon version.

As Paratus et Vigilans says, he wouldn't want to be a test case. You need to make your own evaluation and proceed accordingly.

Where it really gets interesting is those of you who registered a .50 BMG, but not an assault weapon. The next part of 12285 talks about .50 BMG registration. In theory if you registered a .50 BMG in the time frame, you would also be exempt from 12280(a), (b), and (c). So because I registered a FAB-10 as a .50 BMG back in 2006, there might not be any such thing as a OLL for me. I can do whatever I want with them as a person exempt.

I am in no hurry to try that one out.

[Paratus et Vigilans]

So you interpret "acting in accordance" to be similar to "while you are registering" so it would be more for during a 90 day registration window. That is an interesting way to look at it and the fact you already have a registered AW would as you say make the practicality of doing a large-cap fixed mag build nearly worthless.

That's giving me more credit than is due! However, that might have been the reason for the exception language.

I was thinking more along these lines: 12280 says "you may not" and lists penalties for being in violation. 12285 says "if you want one you must" and says how to do so. 12280 Subsection (o)(1) says "you may not" does not apply if you do the "if you want one you must" of 12285. I realize that this makes the "except as provided by this chapter" in 12280 redundant, but there are lots of statutes with redundant language in them, sometimes just becasue they get so long and convoluted, like 12280, the legislators and their staffs get lost and confused themselves in the drafting and revision process.

Frankly, the "I'm covered while I'm in the process of registration" makes a great deal of sense for the (o)(1) exception, and may well be the reason it's there. Wes, you should have been a lawyer!

[ohsmily]

So this thought just struck into my head......

Say you take your OLL complete rifle to the range for some practice. Say you also take a registered pre-ban (2000 ban) AW with you as well.

Since the OLL has a bullet button could you in theory use the 30 rounders in the OLL since you have a pre-ban AW in which you also had plenty of 30 rounders for it?

Huh?

Can you explain your logic please?


And to Wes....you should have reserved your analysis for its own thread on the issue. By posting what you did, you are just confusing the poor n00b who posed the original question.

[69Mach1]

There was only one question:

Since the OLL has a bullet button could you in theory use the 30 rounders in the OLL

No.

[CHS]

That means you can take any of your firearms and manufacture and possess them as assault weapons. You are a person exempt.

Just keep in mind you might be the first test case on this too so be financially prepared to test this out and make sure you have the time to do it to.

This is awesome.

But definitely a "You go first" type of case